Debunking Weight Loss Myths: Fact vs. Fiction
Welcome to the Counter Culture Health podcast. I'm doctor Jen McWaters. And I'm coach Kaitlyn Reed. We're here to help high achieving women overcome mental blocks, find freedom from anxiety, create an abundant life, and build the body and life that they deserve and desire. In this weekly podcast, we'll uncover the raw truth about mental health, nutrition, fitness, and beyond.
Intro:Let's get to it.
Jen:Hey, guys. Welcome back to Counter Culture Health. Today, we are gonna talk about energy balance and weight loss, which is a very hot topic today. And Caitlin's gonna walk us through some key points. We're gonna talk about how weight loss actually happens, why you can't lose weight if you're struggling to.
Jen:We're We're gonna talk about how things like hormones, cortisol and habits can't defy the law of thermodynamics, and we'll talk about the importance of tracking if you are trying to lose weight. And we're also gonna start with a disclaimer for those of us listening who struggle with eating disorders, disordered eating habits, those kinds of things, and give you some thoughts and ways to navigate this episode. So with that, Kaitlin, where do
Kaitlin:you wanna start? It's a very hot topic, but I think it's very important to address. And I think especially as of late because what I have been seeing a lot on social media, marketing, even the clients coming to me with these these things and ideas of what they're seeing and all of this stuff is I I just feel like it's very important to address, like, how this actually works and really understanding, yeah, just the the the process and how we come up with numbers and and what we need to do in order to get the result that we are going for. So I kinda wanna, like, comb through all the noise in the stuff that we see out there now, and just get to the bottom of, like, the science of it. Like, this is this is how it works.
Kaitlin:This is what it is, and this is what we need to do to accomplish what we want to accomplish. So, like, right now, and especially in the the fitness world, the weight loss world, there's a lot of buzz in marketing and clickbait around, like, why you can't lose weight or why you're gaining weight. And a lot of it is around hormones, gut health, cortisol, insulin resistance, under eating, so your body's holding on to everything. And so you just kinda wanna debunk all of that and really talk about how this process actually works. So when we're thinking about weight loss, it it really comes down to energy balance.
Kaitlin:So with with nutrition, calories in versus calories out, that is the science of it. That is how it works, and none of these things defy the law of thermodynamics. They may impact how you feel. They may impact cravings. They may impact behaviors and habits, but they don't defy the process because this is this is science and just how how the process works.
Kaitlin:So when we are consuming more energy or calories than what we need, that's when people gain weight. In order to lose weight, we need to consume less than what we need to put us into a slight calorie deficit, and that's where the weight loss will happen. If we consume the same amount, like, if we're consuming what we need, that's where we maintain our weight. And so it's like it's either of those three things that are happening. Where do you
Jen:think, Caitlin, all the pushback is coming from against that idea and the focus instead on these are all the reasons why you can't lose the weight? Why do you feel like the noise is around that right now?
Kaitlin:I think it's a lot of marketing, money distraction. There's a lot of if you buy this product or if you do this thing, then or, like, this is what you're missing to get the result that you want. Mhmm. And so it's a lot a lot around, like, stuff and things that you need rather than looking at behaviors and, like, really getting honest with ourselves about our habits and behaviors and what we're actually doing and how we're living and the choices that we're making. And so it's much easier to look at this thing or buy this product or take this supplement rather than address the actual problem or, you know, take an honest look at ourselves and
Jen:address our habits and choices in our lifestyle. Do you feel like there's places where that concept of calories in, calories out gets abused or misused? And if so, how? I guess I guess, because I don't wanna let me help with that. Some of where my brain's going is when you and I talked about this before we started recording, is how that could be an excuse perhaps to eat things that wouldn't be good for your body.
Jen:But if they're focused just on calorie deficit, then it's like this excuse of, well, I'm still doing the right thing for my weight loss and my fitness. So I guess what would you say to that? Because that's how I kinda can see it be abused. It becomes like this overarching generalized statement where, like, that's all that matters. And I think what you're saying is to lose weight, it is what matters the most.
Jen:That is that is just like the the black and white facts of how weight loss works. And I guess I also believe that there's nuance there. So maybe can you just touch on that? And I know you will talk about that more, but how does that get misused then? And what would be maybe a more holistic way of thinking about that than just it's all about just my calorie deficit in the process of weight loss?
Kaitlin:Yeah. Yeah. Well, like you mentioned, you know, calories is what's most important when it comes to weight loss, you know, because calories are energy, you know, and we if if we want to lose weight, you have to consume less energy than than what you need to lose body fat. So calories is what's most important. But as we know, the quality of our food matters in, like, how we feel as well.
Kaitlin:Our macro breakdown of what we are the calories that we're consuming impacts how we'll look, our our body composition. You know? So if you are still you know, if you're someone eating still counting your calories, but it's all mostly processed foods and not a lot of whole foods, you will feel very different than somebody who is eating mostly real whole foods and, you know, high quality foods. If you are somebody that is counting your calories but not paying attention to your macros or so, like, getting enough protein or not eating a high protein diet, you will look very different than somebody who is eating a high protein diet, strength training. Your body composition will be very different.
Kaitlin:So that'll kinda be the difference between maybe someone just looking, like, skinny or, like, just or I don't know how to the best way to put that. We'll just call it skinny for these purposes compared to somebody that looks boned and muscular and fit. So that's where, like, the quality and also paying attention to macros along with our calories makes a big difference too. Right. So I think maybe a
Jen:way to think about this is oftentimes our brain conflates weight loss with health. And while you need to be at a healthy weight to achieve health. You could lose weight and not be healthy from a metabolic I mean, from a blood marker standpoint. Right? Some other health things, your muscle mass, etcetera.
Jen:There's lots of other indicators of health aside from I think you would agree with me on that. So I just want people to think about that. We we talk about weight loss today. A lot of people think like, oh, weight loss equals being healthy, but I don't think it's it's not exactly that. It's like weight loss is a piece of the puzzle to getting to a health place, but it also has to look at these other markers, which is completely influenced by the quality of the food that you're consuming.
Kaitlin:Yep. And the activity that you're doing. And Yes. All of those other things.
Jen:Your stress management, all of those things. Right? All of that plays into your actual health. Weight is just one piece of that. But we're just talking really about the weight loss piece of that today, and we're talking about the caloric nature of it.
Kaitlin:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. I'm not I'm not gonna I don't mean to say that, like, all those other things don't matter because they certainly impact, like, how you feel, but they don't defy the the law of how this process works.
Kaitlin:Right. Yes. We can't, like, you know, blame any of those things for maybe, like, the position that we're currently in too when it comes to that. It's all important. But
Jen:I know I know what you believe about that, but I just wanna make sure the listener doesn't misinterpret what you're saying because I think that's can get completed.
Kaitlin:Yeah. Yep. No. Good good point. So when we're I think it's also important for people to understand of, like, how we get these numbers.
Kaitlin:Like, how do we determine what we actually need to how much we actually need to consume, how we get our macro breakdown, how like, where do these numbers come from? Because I a lot of people or, you know, especially working with a coach, like, coach will just tell them, like, hey. Here's your numbers. Here's your macros, and they don't really understand, like, where did where did these numbers come from? How does this whole process work?
Kaitlin:They're just getting numbers and, like, going out and trying to do it. So I really wanna break down, like, how we get to the point of, like, what you actually need and how we break these numbers down. So we first, calories in, we wanna consider that is all the food and beverages that people consume. Yes. Liquid calories still count even though it's in the liquid form.
Kaitlin:That's a lot. You know? Something that gets missed a lot. So it's everything that we are consuming. Calories out is our our expenditure.
Kaitlin:So with that, we consider our basal metabolic rate, our BMR, which I think most people have probably heard of, and that is the energy that we need just to keep us alive at rest, like the bare minimum that we need for function. And so to to calculate that, it goes by age, gender, height, and weight. So that considers your baseline, like the bare minimum that that you need just to function. And then we consider people's activity level on top of that to get your TDEE, total daily energy expenditure. So we consider that along with your BMR to find, like, your maintenance, what you would need to maintain where you currently are.
Kaitlin:But along with that, your TDEE or activity level, we consider, like, are you sedentary? Are you lightly active? Are you moderately active? Are you extremely active? And then that that's what we use for activity level to find your TDEE.
Kaitlin:And I will say, most people overestimate how active they are.
Jen:For sure. Yeah. Significantly.
Kaitlin:Yes. It's very and that is that becomes, like, part of the I don't wanna say problem, but kind of, like, it's very common for people to underestimate how much they're actually consuming and overestimate how much they're moving. And so we have this this imbalance. So it's really figure like, getting honest about, like, how much we're actually consuming and how much we're actually moving so that we have an accurate calculation, to start with. So that's what those two things that's what we consider to find, like, your maintenance calories, how much you would need to maintain where you currently are now.
Kaitlin:Now we know in order to lose weight, we have to be in a slight calorie deficit. So, typically, a smaller calorie deficit for people is more realistic and sustainable because it's not as extreme. The the bigger your calorie deficit is, the harder it is. The more restrictive it is, the less flexible it is, the worse you'll feel, you know, just like from a energy perspective and how you feel throughout the day. And so that's not really a good realistic approach for most people to take.
Kaitlin:And now that's the problem because when people try to lose weight, they try to do something extreme. Too big of a calorie deficit, it sucks. Now I can't do it. I can't stick with it. So this whole process doesn't work for me, and I'm just stuck with this is how I am.
Kaitlin:It doesn't work for me, so I can achieve what I want to achieve. When really the answer is no. We just need to do something appropriate that you can actually stick with and be successful with. And so when people try to lose weight, they try to do something too extreme, and that is what becomes the problem. So what I have found that works really well for most people is about a 250 calorie deficit.
Kaitlin:That's not it's not a lot. It's not extreme at all. That could
Jen:be like one snack. Right? If for some people, like, it could be like yeah. Yep.
Kaitlin:Yeah. Not extreme. And 250 calorie deficit puts people at about a half a pound of weight loss a week, which is you know? And it there becomes a challenge with that of people being too slow and I want it quicker and whatever, but we also wanna think about the sustainability of it too of, like, at this rate, you will be able to sustain and maintain the weight loss that you achieved because it's not drastic. You also have to think about the bigger the calorie deficit is too, the lower the adherence rate is for people to stick with it, and we wanna think about adherence.
Kaitlin:What is something that you can stick to so it actually works, and then we can maintain what we've accomplished during this time? So, yeah, 250 calories, very doable for a lot of people. And like you mentioned, it's it's cutting out one snack during the day or something. Very, very minimal.
Jen:You get one? Sorry to interrupt you, but can we talk to you just what because I know, like you said, a lot of people swing into more extreme weight loss. What are some of the other risks and side effects of doing that? Because I would imagine, and correct me if I'm wrong, this may not be true, but when you lose weight so quickly too, you might have more excess skin, those kinds of things because, you know, you think your body needs time to adapt to the change. Correct?
Jen:And maybe you have different side effects. So what are the side effects if you do go down the path of trying to lose weight in extreme way too quickly?
Kaitlin:Yeah. Loss of muscle mass as well is a big thing too. And so that's where it becomes important of it when you're in a calorie deficit. So when you're in a calorie deficit, there's risk of losing muscle mass because you're in a deficit. That's just how it is.
Kaitlin:So that's the importance of making sure that you are eating enough protein while you're in a calorie deficit so that you maintain your muscle mass that you have. So the weight that we're losing is coming from fat mass, not muscle mass. Mhmm. So that's a very important thing to consider too. With drastic, you're just gonna feel like you're gonna feel like trash.
Jen:You're like And, traditionally, if you can, it's harder to get what you need, I would imagine. Right? If you're really in a restricted caloric deficit, how are you gonna get make sure you're getting even what your body and brain needs to function optimally, cognitively, physically, emotionally. Right? I would imagine.
Jen:Yeah. So, like, higher risk of nutrient deficiencies or Right.
Kaitlin:Something to that effect. Yeah. But what I really look at too is the sustainability of it too of of being able to you know, if you do something hard and fast, the likelihood of you being able to sustain that after your calorie deficit is very low. And so, of course, my goal is to always get people to a place of where they can maintain what we've accomplished and not gain everything back. So doing it that's, slow and steady is always better than fast and drastic because you're able to maintain it.
Kaitlin:The other thing too, if you're in, like, a very if you're in a slight calorie deficit, you can stay in it for a longer period of time too. If you go into a big drastic calorie deficit, then you're there for a shorter period of time. And so it's kind of thinking about just, like, the, like, the longevity and sustainability of the process too. Awesome. Yeah.
Kaitlin:But about so 500 calories deficit that's a little more challenging. Adherence tends to go a little bit lower with that. More restrictive. You don't have you have to be, like, pretty dialed in with what you're doing, less flexibility with things. So I've just found that, like, that 250 or so works really well for people.
Kaitlin:But that 500 will be about a pound of weight loss a week. But even half a
Jen:pound a week, it doesn't sound like a lot when you think about that, but overall, for the year, that's 24 pounds. That's pretty significant weight loss for most people. So it's really, like you said, like, the long game and trying to look at that piece rather than, like, I'm only losing two pounds in this month, which can feel insignificant. But if, like you said, if you can stick with it, that becomes significant amount of weight loss for the year.
Kaitlin:Over time. Yeah. Yeah. It adds up to yeah. Well, and that's the we'll get in I know we're doing another episode on, like, consistency and what that means, but kind of bringing that into it a little bit too of, you know, we wanna think about what is happening over, like, month to month, not what's happening day to day and week to week.
Kaitlin:If you focus on that, you will drive yourself crazy of, like, this is not happening fast enough or I'm not achieving whatever. But if you stick to it and then we look at what happened over the duration of several months, then you're like, oh, things things are happening. So we wanna think about it, like, long term and not just what's happening in that that week to week time.
Jen:How important is it to stay I know we're talking about tracking as well, but my mind goes to not wanting to go too rigid with it. So you let's say you need a 250 calorie deficit to lose weight, but day to day, your activity level changes. What you consume is probably gonna change a little bit too. Right? And so how do you how do you do that without becoming rigid to the point where it becomes an unhealthy thing?
Jen:Yeah. I mean, it's it's all about I really think it comes down
Kaitlin:to how you view tracking in your mindset around it. You can look at it as, like, this rigid restrictive thing, or you can look at it as an educational tool and an informative tool. Because the reality is, like, if you are not tracking, you really don't know what and how much you're consuming. And people's idea of of what they think they're doing and what they think they're consuming is very different than when they actually start logging things. And so it's it's a very big eye opener for a lot of people of what they thought they were doing compared to what they're actually doing.
Jen:I agree with this. I'm gonna just put my 2ยข away with that because I I don't do the same work that Caitlin does. However, I often will have clients do like a food mood diary. They're struggling with mental health pieces of that because oftentimes I I suspect that, again, what they're reporting to me of how they're eating is not what's actually happening. And like 99% of the time, that's true.
Jen:They tend to underreport proteins significantly. They tend to underreport snacks and processed foods, sugar, those kinds of things. And even for myself, like, I'll sometimes experiment and just I'm just curious, like, what am I consuming? Because it is hard to self report. It's hard to remember.
Jen:I try to think about what you had yesterday for lunch, and you probably have to think through a little bit, and you probably don't remember all the components and all the snacks you had. So when I even tracked for, like, a week just out of, you know, curiosity for educational purposes, I was also surprised. You know, I'm very health conscious and very conscious of what I'm eating and what's in my house. I was surprised that, like, the macro ratio I thought was was different than what I expected and and what I had thought. So I think it is helpful.
Jen:And, again, like, if you use it as an educational tool, I know that you believe that long term, the goal is not to always be everyday logging in an app because that does not feel sustainable or very natural for us, but it's a good way to bring awareness and and help you learn about food and and we know the nutritional profile of all the foods that you're consuming. So I just wanna back that up that, yes, peep we really don't, all of us, me included, don't fully know what we're consuming and can't report that very well without having another tool to help us identify that.
Kaitlin:Yeah. Yeah. And the goal is to not have to track forever, always, like, to be able to get to that point. But you will never learn or know what you need to know about food if you don't track first because then it's just going to be like this, I don't know, made up scenario in your head of what you think you're actually doing too. So to have, like, you know, like, the data and the facts of what's actually going on to kinda help you get to where you need to go.
Kaitlin:So, yeah, tracking is if if want to lose weight, you have to track. That's just that's just that's my belief, and that's just how it is because there's no way to know if you're in a calorie deficit or not if you're not tracking. Well, especially since you're 50 calories,
Jen:that is so specific and small, like we said. So truly, like, there's no way I could just estimate that because it is so specific. Right? When you're not doing major deficits, you need to track that because it's a very small number actually, and you can easily under overeat that by just, you know, nuts and fruit or whatever. Like, it's Yeah.
Jen:It doesn't take much.
Kaitlin:Yep. Yeah. And that's such a good point. Yeah. Because it could be, you know, just a couple items, and now you're now you're no longer in a calorie deficit.
Kaitlin:So now, you know, we're not able to move to where we need to be either. Since we're talking about tracking, can you give us, like, your top I know you have, like,
Jen:a favorite tracking tool, but can you give maybe top two, top three favorite tracking tools for people?
Kaitlin:I have a top one.
Jen:Okay. So just one. Don't know where it
Kaitlin:is. Okay. Totometer is the app that I use. I have some people on MyFitnessPal don't prefer it at all. I don't think it's user friendly.
Kaitlin:I found a lot of inaccuracies with it, so I encourage people to use Cronometer for tracking. I know there's a lot of other great ones out there, but I haven't used them just because I love Cronometer and it works. And it's very user friendly and easy to understand. So, honestly, I don't really explore any other options. Maybe I should, but
Jen:I don't. So That's fair. But I was curious about MyFitnessPalks. I've had clients talk about that or maybe some people have, like, access to that for free through, like, work perks and things like that. So they might lean into that because it's free.
Jen:Cronometer, my understanding is too when I played around with it, you can download for free and I think track for, like, a week for free. But if you wanna log stuff long term, you need to pay for a subscription.
Kaitlin:Yeah. It's very I it's, like, $8.99 a month or something. It's pretty inexpensive. However, if you are working with a coach, then they can put you on their platform and then you just get it. So Nice.
Kaitlin:That's very nice. Yeah. And then the coach has the ability to view, like, food logs, food diaries, entries, and all of those things and adjust macros and kinda get in the back end and do all of it. So it works very, very well in, a coach client relationship.
Jen:That's neat. So another perk, guys. If you work with Caitlin, you'll get Cronometer for free. Free Cronometer. That's right.
Kaitlin:Love that. Yep. Okay. What else? Well, so while we're talking about tracking, I mean, we've we've discussed the importance of tracking, but there's a lot of along with that requires honesty with your tracking.
Kaitlin:And this is something that I really get into with people too because well, as we know, food is like a sensitive topic. There's a lot that goes around around food, you know, shame and guilt and judgment and embarrassment and all of these things. And so working with people, have found that there's a lot of underreporting. There's a lot of not tracking certain types of foods that they may be deemed bad or, like, not perfect or inappropriate to be on a food tracking app. Or it's like, if it's not a health food or a good food, then I don't wanna put it in there because I don't wanna see it or or whatever.
Kaitlin:There's that that goes on. There's a lot of maybe not putting in the full amount of what you're actually having. So maybe we're gonna put, like, some of it, but we're not gonna admit to all of it. And so there's a there's a lot of that that goes along with tracking that we have to address and kinda get to the bottom of and realize, like, that this is not a place of, like, judgment and shame and any of those things, but it's to help you get to where you want to get to. And with that, there has to be honesty or you're never going to achieve what you want to accomplish.
Kaitlin:And so I know it seems, like, tedious and insignificant, but with that, I get into with people, you know, like, you are you doing a lot of eyeballing and guesstimating and doing, like, roundabouts and ish of, like, what you're having, or are you truly logging, weighing and measuring those things? Are you this is what we call in the the nutrition or fitness space, BLTs, bites, licks, and tastes. And I always add handfuls in there too because, you know, these things add up over time. There's you know, it it might seem like minimal and insignificant in the moment, but if you're doing that several times throughout the day or, you know, over the week, this compounding effect of if you're not accounting for those things, those things add up. Now you're no longer in a calorie deficit.
Kaitlin:Liquid calories is a big deal too. Not logging, like, lattes or juices or creamer in your coffee or whatever. Those things add up and need to be logged and accounted for too.
Jen:And wine is I was gonna say with wine. Like I said, it can be so tempting if you were, you know, people that are drinking. I found that to be like a a hard place for a lot of women, especially as they are middle age is, you know, you might be home and then someone, let's say, is refilling your glass before it's empty. And so you might be thinking you had two glasses when you actually had three. Right?
Jen:And that's a pretty big significant difference if you're not truly having a glass, emptying it, and then refilling it. You're just refilling as you go. How do you know how much you're actually consuming? So I see that trip up a lot of people too. Yeah.
Kaitlin:Well, and also, you know, like, some people will say, I just had one glass of wine, but their glass is seven ounces or whatever or eight. I don't know. But in like, when we're really thinking about a serving of wine or it's three and a half ounces, I think, or something. Think so. Typically, yeah, people are consuming double the alcohol, then nobody's actually pouring a three and a half ounce glass of wine when they're drinking wine.
Kaitlin:Must be real.
Jen:Right. Right. Unless maybe you're in a winery or something like that, and they're really you. Right. Do you know off the top hand, like, how much calories in general is roughly in a glass of wine, like, for, like, red wine?
Jen:We probably
Kaitlin:do that. Pull up my
Jen:I just cannot just for context for people. Like, okay. Because you're like, oh, I don't, you know, I don't need to, you know, track or I don't drink that much, whatever. But let's really look at just to give a reality check of how much is in that one glass of wine or, you know, or maybe, like, beer can of beer. I'm gonna pull up my alcohol cheat sheet.
Jen:Perfect.
Kaitlin:Because I
Jen:didn't prep you for that. Sorry, Caitlin,
Kaitlin:but thank goodness. I got it, though. Always on hand. Beautiful. So because we don't like alcohol is very calorically dense.
Kaitlin:Uh-huh. And what most people don't know or most people look at when they're looking at alcohol, they look at the carbohydrates of alcohol. They're like, oh, it's not that many carbs. It could be too bad or whatever. Or they choose, a low carb option and think they're doing a good thing, but what they're not considering is the calories that also comes from the alcohol itself.
Kaitlin:So now you get carbohydrates and alcohol calories. So it's like double or triple what you actually think you're consuming. Because we know we've talked about this before. There's four calories in one gram of protein, four calories in one gram of carbohydrates, nine calories in one gram of fat, seven calories in one gram of alcohol. So you're not just getting the carbohydrate calories from the beverage, you're also getting the calories from alcohol itself, and alcohol is a very dense macronutrient.
Jen:I didn't even think about alcohol being separate its own macronutrient because I was like, what is it then? What is the calorie from? The carb content of that? It has its own Alcohol itself. I didn't even know that.
Jen:That's fascinating.
Kaitlin:Okay. Yep. Wow. Yep. Yes.
Kaitlin:Okay. So if we are thinking give me a give me a wine. Red wine. Okay. So if we do, a
Jen:cap Yeah. A 113 calories. For four ounces? Three and a half? For three well, three and a half.
Jen:Three and a half ounces. Okay. Give me a chardonnay. Do you have that?
Kaitlin:118.
Jen:Okay. How about like a do you have like a sparkling wine or champagne?
Kaitlin:Yes. A 150.
Jen:150 for three and a half ounce pour. Okay. How about, like, a can of beer?
Kaitlin:We do if you do an IPA, it's 212.
Jen:Okay. I imagine I know, like, Guinness is, like, really calorically dense. Like, there's some heavy beers. Right?
Kaitlin:Not beer, but that would definitely be Yeah.
Jen:What's the heaviest? Like, what's the highest caloric content for wines and beers?
Kaitlin:For oh, the highest one I have on here is the is an IPA, and then Blue Moon would be the I just have, like, you know, some examples. Yeah. Champagne's the highest, and then, like, a IPA is the highest. Okay. Have some mixed drinks on here too.
Jen:Yeah. Let's do that. Margarita.
Kaitlin:Oh, yeah. 150 calories per drink.
Jen:250 calories for how much, though? Because margaritas can come huge at the restaurant. Yeah. What is I'm not don't know. I'm not really a a marg person, but, like, sometimes they're they're regular and then you see, like, the monster sandwich.
Kaitlin:Fish bowl. That's gonna be, like, well over a thousand calories if we're getting fish bowls. Right? Right. So
Jen:a traditional margarita glass, we'll say. Yeah. Okay. And she said 250?
Kaitlin:Think about, like, you know, typical people have maybe two or three drinks when they go out or Mhmm. You know, I it's not uncommon for people to have two or three glasses of wine a night. So now all of a sudden, there's over 500 calories that you're consuming that you're not accounting for. And now we're blaming all of these other things as to why I'm gaining weight and can't losing lose weight when really it's just about what you're consuming.
Jen:Yeah. I've seen that be, yeah, complicated. Problem. But Yeah. Yeah.
Jen:Yeah. For sure. Just because you're right. Like, it eats up the deficit. Let's say you're trying to lose weight, you know, a glass, 250 calories or, you know, 150 between there, like, that that's your deficit is gone.
Jen:Right? So you have no more wiggle room for the day. And if you're not counting that, that's what's sabotaging you. So I always say to tell people too, it's like, think that's, in my opinion, one of the easiest things to eliminate and reduce in your life to be if you have a weight loss goal or a health goal with with weight loss, just to take that out. I think for me, again, I I'm biased, so I much rather enjoy a dessert than have alcohol.
Jen:I don't really drink at all anymore. So and you get nutrition from foods. Right? You're not getting nutrition from alcohol. So I'm always like, let's cut that out first.
Jen:Yep. And then, you know, if you still have a need a deficit, then maybe cutting out some other things that are not serving your body well. But I think that's an easy thing for people to let go of physically, not psychologically. But
Kaitlin:Yeah. Yeah. It's a whole another part of it. Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's nothing there's zero benefit to alcohol.
Kaitlin:There's no, yeah. There's no health benefit. And then, you know, it interrupts your sleep. It makes you inflamed. It makes you retain more water.
Kaitlin:It impacts your mental and emotional state. I mean, I could go on.
Jen:Your brain functioning, and it actually causes, I think, cell death. Like, you know, look at some of doc Amon's doctor Amon's stuff. It's basically sadly poison for our bodies and brains. So and that's not being dramatic. It just is where the science is with it.
Jen:So it's not something you, yeah, eat in your life. It's something I people to let go of because I don't know anyone who's let go of it who has regretted that ever. Yeah. No. Yeah.
Jen:It's always been
Kaitlin:a benefit. And there's so many there's so many, like, alternatives out there now for people too.
Jen:Yeah. Mocktails. I've had some mocktails are good. Yeah. Yeah.
Jen:If you're gonna go like,
Kaitlin:Moonbrew or Calm, so it's more like Oh, yeah. Adaptogenic. Like Yeah. Like relaxation things. And so also what I found for a lot of people too is not necessarily, like, I need the alcohol.
Kaitlin:It's more of the action and the behavior. Yes. And so if we can replace that with something different, it they do just fine with it. But in their mind, like, oh, I need this thing when really it's like they need a beverage in their hand and that hand to mouth thing is what they're used to. So there's lots of other ways to accomplish that.
Jen:And same with smokers, by the way. I've had some success getting, like, ex smokers to still take their breaks is what they were really missing was actually taking the breaks at work where they can walk outside, and you don't get to do that if you're not smoking. Right. Right? So then we created some other health habits, coping skills, meditation, things they can do and take a break and still get the break pieces what they really were wanting at that point after they kind of, you know, work through their addiction part of it.
Jen:So, yeah, replacement behavior. Right? There's something to that. Yeah. You can't leave that space empty or Yeah.
Kaitlin:Replace it with something something different. Another sneaky thing in there too is, like, oils and sauces. Those to be accounted for. Right. Things are they're they're dense.
Kaitlin:They're they're fat. Right? Like, most of those things are fat based, and so they're calorically dense, so they easily add up to a lot of calories. So think about if you're if you're using a tablespoon of olive oil to cook with Yeah. At every single meal, we'll say, okay, tablespoon of olive oil three times a day that you're not accounting for.
Kaitlin:A tablespoon of olive oil is about let's call it 12 grams of fat. 12 times nine. What is that? One zero eight. Did I do the math right?
Jen:Yep. One zero eight. You got it. Yeah.
Kaitlin:Three. There's over now you're well over 300 calories for the day
Jen:with Right. With so And, again, that's not wrong or bad. It's just in because it has to be accounted for, and it should be part of or bad.
Kaitlin:Yes. Exactly. For it and consider it. Like, not shaming and even alcohol. Like, if you want to do that still, you just need to account for it in your calories and not have it in addition to.
Kaitlin:So, yeah, not shaming any of these things, but they're just things you you have to think about and account for and consider in this process. But, again, choose olive oil over alcohol. So Yeah. Yeah.
Jen:Not shaming, but suggesting there are better choices and better ways to consume your calories. Right?
Kaitlin:But, like, I think the most important thing in this whole this whole thing is just honesty with yourself and taking ownership of your your habits and your behaviors and your lifestyle. And so thinking about, like, you know, what is contributing to your overconsuming? And, like, we have to get to the bottom of that as well for this to be successful. You know, your relationship with food, stress, boredom. Are you looking for a dopamine hit?
Kaitlin:Like, all of those things we have to consider and work through to for this process to actually be successful. It's not as simple as, like, hey. Go into a deficit, and you'll be successful. There's a lot of, like, mental and emotional components that go along with this, and that's why I think it's super, super important to work with a coach in this process too so that you can work on those things, but also so that you get the proper guidance on going through a deficit and the proper numbers, and you're not doing something extreme and unhealthy and approaching it in a in a very healthy and sustainable way.
Jen:And I would argue too the call out of the the quality of the coach matters then. Right? Because not all coaches are gonna be adept at addressing the psychological piece of that, addressing emotional eating. Caitlin, I know, is very adept at those things given her own background and history. She has training in psychology.
Jen:So if you're gonna work with someone, you know, you have emotional eating issues, either you need to find a coach and a therapist, right, combo to work on those pieces or find a coach who's really knowledgeable in that space who can really help you with these psychological pieces of our eating habits, which is, I think, especially for women, a significant portion of the driving force behind weight gain and trouble with weight loss and and all of that.
Kaitlin:Yep. Yeah. Thankfully, with me, you get both.
Jen:You do. Two for one. And with me too, you get a therapist and coach combo as well. So we have our very different niche areas, but we are multifaceted and holistically trained. So but yeah.
Jen:But there's other people like us out there too. Right? It's important to find someone that has the skill set in both of those areas. Yeah.
Kaitlin:But the just kind of the like, something to end on here. Like, being being in this process, it requires honesty. It requires some sacrifice and saying, you know, no to some things, and it requires delayed gratification to be successful. But most of all, I want people to know that you're not broken. Your metabolism is not broken.
Kaitlin:You're you you are not stuck with where you are. You are not just because you're a certain age or in menopause or whatever doesn't mean that you can't still lose weight. Like, you can. It just takes all of these things that we just talked about uncovered today.
Jen:Right. I love that because I think oftentimes we forget, like, when we look big picture, look at other cultures and parts of the world, like, they don't have the same level of issue as we do in The US with metabolic issues and and obesity. And so it's not like we're just broken and they're not broken. Right? It really is the food and the health habits and the sedentary lifestyles and all those things, the inflammation.
Jen:That's the problem. But the good news is those are things that are in our control to change. Like, we can make different choices. Yeah. And so
Kaitlin:I think having this conversation, it it gives you the power to be able to take back control of, like, oh, I have there's something that I can do about this.
Jen:Yes. And can I ask you before we wrap up? Just let's touch on eating disorders for a moment, and then also I wanna wrap in there the body positivity movement. And I know just briefly, people have different opinions on that, which is fine, and I'm gonna try to let you since I'm in the field of psychology. But can we touch on that and maybe how that has been detrimental?
Jen:Because I feel like it's it's there's some good in that space. Like, right, like, we do wanna move away from shaming people. I think that is important because shaming people doesn't get them to change behavior in my experience. Yep. However, it can then allow people to justify being metabolically unhealthy and overweight and be a way a a way out from addressing that in their life.
Jen:Yep. That's that's kinda my opinion. So I pull that loosely and try to take a middle path with those kinds of things. But I mean, we have to be honest and realistic.
Kaitlin:Like, we can't cover that up. That it's not healthy to be overweight. Right. It's not. And we can't and we're not doing those people we're doing them a disservice, you know, with that approach, I think.
Kaitlin:Because it it but that doesn't take way of, like, you can you can still I don't know how to put this. Love yourself or accept yourself while still chain while still changing.
Jen:I love that. And
Kaitlin:Considering where you are right now, you can accept that. You can also still change. And, we have to think about this from, like, a health perspective too, and there's it's not healthy to be obese or overweight. It's just not. I
Jen:agree. I think that's right. I mean, that's the middle path approach that we take in psychology. Right? It's like it's it's both.
Jen:It's yes. I think we do need to work on, especially as women, not shaming ourselves and being able to have body positivity and also focus on our health and get our body to a healthy metabolic place because that's gonna create longevity and help us live out our values the best. So I think both can be there. It's not like we should just focus on weight loss and shame people, but doesn't mean we should also just accept that all weight is okay and healthy and then not address the health components that come with that. That's just the reality of it too.
Jen:So I'm with you on that. What about for eating disorders? How should someone with an eating disorder think about this topic today? This has been we've gone to the nitty gritty. I know it can definitely trigger some people, especially if they've had, like, anorexia in the past, restrictive eating, binge purge cycles.
Jen:How should they think about this idea and concept? And what if they are struggling with being overweight, but they have an eating disorder? How should they navigate it? Yeah.
Kaitlin:It's I I mean, it's it depends. That's Always. I mean, it depends. It's very nuanced. I think it really depends on on the individual and, like, severity as well.
Kaitlin:But as we know, like, this whole process is not going to be successful if we don't also address, like, the underlying things too. So it needs to go hand in hand and be both and. However, there is also I have seen a lot of people heal and recover from tracking because now they under now they actually understand food and nutrition, and it's not this made up thing that they're creating in their head of, like, what's good or bad or what's awful what whatever story they're creating about food. Now we have data and facts, and we've come at it from a very educational perspective. And so it's actually created a lot of freedom for them because now they actually understand it by having the data and information.
Kaitlin:And so it can work. I mean, it could go both ways. You know, people can get and that's I said this earlier. It's it really depends on the approach that you take with it. Like, are we looking at this as restrictive and putting rules and things around it, or are we looking and using this as a educational tool and approaching it in that way?
Kaitlin:So, yes, some, and it just depends on the individual. And I'm I'm pretty good about deciding if, like, tracking would be good for you or tracking would not be a good idea for you and approaching it from from that perspective. But kinda moving to a place of, like, how can we get to a place where it could be a good thing for you? You know, same thing with the scale. There's times where it's like, okay.
Kaitlin:We are not in a place where it'd be a good idea to be weighing yourself right now, but also how can we get to a place that we can and the scale no longer has power and control over you anymore. So it's kind of always working towards those things. But I've seen it go both ways, and it really just depends on the individual. You know? And it's really about, I guess, from, like, a coach perspective or whatever, understanding, like, would this be a helpful tool or would would this not and approach it from that way.
Kaitlin:But, yeah, I've seen a lot of people gain a lot of freedom and recover from from tracking because now they actually understand food and nutrition. And it's not this, like, big scary monster that they've created it to be because now they actually have the understanding and knowledge of it. I love that. And I I do agree with that.
Jen:I think it's all about, you know, the tool itself. Just like money, we've talked about money before. It's just a thing. It's just an object. There's nothing to it, but it's the importance we place on it, the judgments we have about an opinions that make it feel good or feel bad for us.
Jen:Right? And a scale is the same thing. The tracking tool is the same thing. It's just an educational tool. But I think people need to be self aware and notice, like, if they, from a mental health standpoint, feel like they're getting more anxiety because they're tracking or feeling more restrictive or noticing, like, old eating disorder patterns come back.
Jen:Right? That's a red flag to definitely stop and work with a coach, therapist, whoever you need to work with to make sure that if you're going to be using that, you're doing that in a healthy balanced way. But I always caution people on not doing this on their own if they have a history of eating disorders. Right? Because that is a tendency for them to right.
Jen:Like, yes, you're nodding because Yeah. Yeah. You wanna work with someone like Caitlyn. Something that's not appropriate. Right.
Jen:You're yeah. If you have that
Kaitlin:history and you're trying to do
Jen:it on your own. It's yeah. Yeah. You're probably going to, you know, go back into those behaviors, and you're also gonna probably choose a caloric deficit that's not appropriate for you or a time frame that's inappropriate or whatever it is. So we just wanna encourage people to all of this is, like, you know, it's all individualized.
Jen:None of this is black and white, really. Perhaps, again, unless unless we're just talking about the energy balance concept and the science piece of that, that is black and white. But aside from that, how we go about this is very nuanced and very individualized for people.
Kaitlin:Yeah. Yeah. Now I hear from people all the time, like, when I get them started in their their numbers worked out and things, like, there's something weird. Like, people I don't know why. Like, 1,200 calories is like this magic number in the I've heard that too.
Kaitlin:Like, they think that, like, that's what they need to do to lose weight. I don't know why people pick 1,200 calories, but that's what it is. And so when I get ahold of people and start working with them and realize that you can be in a calorie deficit at 1,800 calories or 1,600 calories, it's like mind blowing for them of like, what do you mean a deficit is still 1,800 calories?
Jen:Like That's true. Yeah. I've heard that too. People throw out the 1,200. I'm like, what is what is that?
Kaitlin:Where is that from? Keep it's just like this made up number that people have come up with in the in the world. I don't know where it came from, but, yeah, that's absolutely not what it is. And so, you know, there's like a lot of relief and freedom too of like, wow. I could still have, you know, 1,800 calorie like, be in a deficit at 1,800 calories or more for some people, you know, and still be able to move in the right direction.
Kaitlin:It's it's like, yeah. That's why you've never been successful before because you've been trying to do something too extreme that you just can't sustain.
Jen:Right. And that's having boundaries instead of being restrictive. Right? I think having having some guideposts that is, like you said, I always say boundaries actually create freedom. They don't lessen freedom.
Jen:We need boundaries to have freedom. Right? Like, think about, like, laws and regulations. Yes. They are laws, and there's clear black and white laws around what we can and can't do as citizens, but that creates freedom for us.
Jen:Because if there aren't those boundaries, then we can't live safely in the world. Right? Yep. And so I think this is the same way. We need those boundaries and guideposts so we can have freedom and be able to, I think, have a healthy relationship with food and all of that because we are, you know, way back when humans didn't have refrigerators and access to food twenty four seven, all those things.
Jen:So those things weren't really an issue. They didn't have to do those things. They didn't have food accessible all the time. Yes. Right?
Jen:They had to work together their food and to grow their food. So overconsumption was pretty rare or nonexistent for the most part. So we are now having we need more of these tools to help us learn how to really understand food and what we're eating and its nutritional density, all those kinds of things.
Kaitlin:Yeah. Yeah. I think that's that's such a good point. It's, you know, in something I work with people on too is, like, really asking yourself, like, are you actually hungry? Like, do you or is there something else, you know, going on of why you're reaching for a certain thing?
Kaitlin:There's a quote of if if hunger isn't the issue, then food isn't the solution. But I think that we have turned towards food as a solution for a lot of
Jen:different things. Yeah. I mean, it gives you the dopamine hit, right, it does feel good. It's part of celebration. So there are there are emotional components that are inherent into food.
Jen:So but we have to think about that if we're struggling. One quick disclaimer too, I'll just say because it popped into my mind. For those listening who have teenage daughters, I typically very much discourage the tracking unless maybe there is like a major health issue, obesity issue, but then have them work with someone who's very competent to work with teens and especially teen girls. I've just seen that backfired, like, ninety nine percent of the time for teen girls when they get a tracking tool or a Fitbit or whatever it is, it creates obsessiveness. It creates and they they just don't understand food.
Jen:They don't have the education. They tend to under consume, overexercise, all those things. Just a caution in general, like, this information for me is, like, 18. Like, for adults, anyone who's younger, you need to be working with someone. If you have a weight goal, you should work with a professional who understands those pieces of it and how it relates to teens because that time in life is already so tumultuous, emotionally difficult, body image wise is is like it's at its worst as in your teen years.
Jen:So just wanna encourage any moms listening out there, definitely move you know, do not suggest these tools to your teen at
Kaitlin:all, I'd say. Yeah. They're working with someone. Yeah. Absolutely.
Kaitlin:Or, like, yeah, even if you're, I don't know, like a extreme athlete too. But in that case, still working with someone to make sure your nutrition is still optimized and things like, you know, things like that. Because this tool could also I mean, this is a tool to also, you know, for some people, make sure you're eating enough Creswell. And, you know, it goes both ways. I know today we're talking about weight loss, but, you know, it it goes it goes both ways too.
Jen:So for sure. Well, thank you, Caitlin, for bringing this topic to us today. I know it's a hot one and touchy and difficult because of all the emotional components, but I think we need to talk about it and destigmatize it and, you know, get through bust through all those myths and just have a healthier relationship with understanding food understanding food and what it is and the fuel that it is for our bodies and how to go about a healthy way of navigating weight loss if that's something that you need to do on your health journey. So thank you guys for joining us today. We'll be back in a couple weeks with another episode, but please make sure you do like, follow, share if this was helpful to you and hopefully someone else in your life as well.
Jen:And we'll see you guys later. Thanks for joining us on the Counter Culture Health podcast. To support this show, please rate, review, and share with your friends and family. If you wanna be reminded of new episodes, click the subscribe button on your preferred podcast player.
Intro:You can find me, Jen, at awaken.holistic.health and at awakeningholistichealth.com. And me, Caitlin, at Caitlin Reed Wellness and caitlinreedwellness.com. The content of the show is for educational and informational purposes only. As always, talk to your doctor and health team. See you next time.
