From Avoidance to Action: Embrace Discomfort for Growth
Welcome to the Counter Culture Health Podcast. I'm Doctor. Jen McWaters: And I'm Coach Kaitlin Reed. We're here to help high achieving women overcome mental blocks, find freedom from anxiety, create an abundant life and build the body and life that they deserve and desire. In this weekly podcast, we'll uncover the raw truth about mental health, nutrition, fitness, and beyond. Let's get to it.
Kaitlin:Hello, friends. Welcome back to Counter Culture Health, and thank you so much for joining us this week. Today we are going to talk about avoidance. I think this is such a great topic to talk about as many of us do avoid certain things for whatever reason, but really just digging into it and thinking about why we avoid the things we avoid, the impact it has on our life, and digging deep into that and getting to the root. So today we'll go over questions to ask ourselves, practical steps to make change, and how we can overcome this avoidance and get to the other side and just to live like a fuller life.
Jen:Yeah. And I would say all of us struggle with it, maybe to different degrees, and all of us have the things we avoid, and it can just it looks different for everybody, right, and it's subtle, and sometimes our avoidance mechanisms are culturally appropriate or things that people just do, so it can kind of fly under the radar. So we're gonna encourage you guys to really challenge yourself by asking yourself these hard questions that we're gonna go over in just a few minutes. But let's first talk about what is avoidance. There's lots of ways you could define it.
Jen:Here's a couple things that Kaitlin and I thought through prior to this recording. One way to think about it, it's when we don't do the things that we need to do because we are uncomfortable or maybe fearful or feeling anxious. So not doing the thing that you need to do. Kaitlin also offered, I think, really wise thought, prerecord too. She said, it's when we do things that are familiar to us even if we know it's bad for us.
Jen:So, let that sit for a moment because I think that is maybe something we don't think about. But sometimes we do the same thing over and over again, and it's comfortable even if it hurts us. But it can be scary to try something new, so we stick with what's familiar, and that is a form of avoidance as well. So, let's talk through some examples so we can make this really practical and relatable. So a common one, especially if you, well, all of us have been students at one time is procrastination.
Jen:So that's a classic one when we are avoiding schoolwork, avoiding studying, writing a paper the night before the paper's due, those kinds of things. I was in grad school and was a master at procrastinating my dissertation. So, even though I had like five years to do it, you know, I crammed it all into like the final year and a half or two years. It's and, you know, really what we do is we're creating more suffering for ourselves by doing that. But it's so uncomfortable to do it.
Jen:We push it off often until we have this hard and fast deadline where we have we have no other option unless we're willing to fail. And most of us don't want to do that. So, we procrastinate until we can get away with it. And then last minute we try to get everything done, stress ourselves out, don't sleep, etcetera. So, that's a classic one.
Jen:Another one would be avoiding conflict or hard conversations. This is often something that will bring people to coaching or therapy is that they are having issues in a relationship, but oftentimes they've never articulated that problem or how they're feeling to their friend, their partner, their parents, their child, whoever it is. And again, that's usually deep down, it's rooted in this fear of what will happen if I were to speak up. So often in like romantic relationship could be a fear of being left, being abandoned. So it's rooted in those types of fears.
Jen:Could also just be the discomfort that comes with conflict. Right? It usually then amps up our anxiety. It may put us into fight or flight mode, and that's an uncomfortable feeling. So people will avoid conflict, like, work because they don't want to feel those feelings and have to deal with maybe the downstream effects of having to work through that issue.
Jen:Or maybe they're concerned about gossip happening, you know, whatever it is, but fear based as well. Anything you'd add to those before I move on to other categories?
Kaitlin:Yeah, especially on the conflict one. I think a lot of people, myself included, we think about like the worst case scenario that could come from that. So we always think of the abandonment, the conflict, the arguments, the lose my job or whatever. So our mind is always going to the worst case scenario rather than, like there's always two sides to things, right? There's always the other side that if I bring this up, it could go very well and actually resolve a problem.
Kaitlin:And maybe the other person has been thinking or feeling the same thing. So we always have to take a moment and pause and think about both sides of how things could go and not always just the worst case scenario as well. So I think that's what keeps people stuck. Yes.
Jen:Yeah. %. And I think that's a good reminder, and we've said this before on the podcast, but, you know, 80% of the things we worry about don't actually happen. So there's only a 20% chance or less that the thing that you're so afraid of happening will actually happen. So that should be a comfort to you because Caitlin's very much right that most people lean into catastrophizing and assume the very worst.
Jen:And in reality, it may not be the best case scenario that could happen. It could, but it's most likely not gonna be the worst. There'll be something in the middle. There'll be a mixture of good and bad, but not something so intolerable. But that's what our mind tells us.
Jen:Mhmm. So that's a good reminder there too. Mhmm. So let's talk about some behavioral signs of avoidance. So this is a pretty big category, but here's some big ones and highlights.
Jen:Number one substance use when we are abusing, I'll say abusing substances, not necessarily just using a substance, but abusing a substance, we are typically trying to numb out a feeling, which is a form of avoidance, or avoiding something else, right, that we don't want to deal with. So, whether that is alcohol or marijuana, very commonly now these days, any other drug, food, I don't know. Food, yeah. Well, yes, I was gonna say eating issues as well. Food is, I guess, could be a substance.
Jen:So, when we're using something like that, right, it's triggering us neurochemically so we can feel these feel good hormones and then not feel the stuff we don't wanna feel. And something to remember with this is we often put feelings into these binary categories of good feelings and bad feelings. But I want to challenge you to think of the fact that there are no bad or good feelings. There's just feelings. There's just some that are more comfortable to feel and enjoyable to feel than others and some that are uncomfortable to feel, but they are all important.
Jen:They all have a purpose. They'll have an important function for us. And when we try to get rid of the bad ones, so let's say like anxiety or anger, sadness by using substances or under eating, overeating, over exercising, whatever it is, we are jeopardizing our ability to feel the feelings we want to feel. Like, you can't just pick, right? Like, when you dampen one emotion, it will show up in other ways.
Jen:So, let's say you're not comfortable with anger, so you suppress that with drinking. Maybe you're not expressing anger anymore, but you might be exhibiting or feeling a lot of anxiety. So, say like emotions need to go somewhere. You can't just get rid of them. So, they just will leak out in other ways if you aren't dealing with them appropriately or processing them.
Jen:So just keep that in mind. It's like they have to go somewhere. So again, this avoidance will always catch up with you. Just like avoiding conflict will always catch up with you. Right?
Jen:Eventually things will blow up. Eventually things will disintegrate if you don't deal with them. So it's really just kicking the bucket when you avoid.
Kaitlin:Yeah. I always use the beach ball analogy of when you try to shove a beach ball underwater, like, you're fighting it. You're fighting it to try to keep it under, but eventually it's just gonna explode. It just you can't shove it down there anymore, it gets loose and it just explodes out of the water. And the same thing happens when we continue to avoid things over and over and over for years, eventually it's just going to explode.
Kaitlin:Whether that's mentally, emotionally, physical health issues, it's going to come out in some way.
Jen:Yep. And so just to add a couple other categories here. So in relationships, even I would say codependency is a form of avoidance, right? So we need to behave or do something to not feel the discomfort. Also, just because I work a lot with business owners, it shows up in how you show up in your business and what you're willing to do to grow your business.
Jen:So and I struggle with this. So, you know, I'm very much in this camp in the past where it can be really uncomfortable to cold call or reach out online to someone or show up to a networking event where you don't know anyone or have to go to an event and you have to speak. I just did one a couple weeks ago. I had to, like, work through my discomfort with that because it's not, like, the thing I'm gonna automatically sign up to do. Like, I have to work through my thoughts and feelings about it and focus on, which we'll talk about in a minute, why would this be helpful to me or important to me or to my business?
Jen:So I often work with business owners on procrastination and avoidance of those things that would grow their business. And it's just them getting in the way. There's nothing wrong with the business or they're usually incredibly talented at what they do, but they don't show up. And you've you don't show up. You don't get clients.
Jen:You don't make money. Mhmm. So that's another form of how that can definitely show up in your life.
Kaitlin:I always tell people well, we'll get into this a little bit later too, but it's like practicing those things, At first it's gonna feel like you want to crawl out of your skin doing those things, but eventually it won't feel like that anymore. The more you practice and face it, it gets more comfortable. It's kind of like that exposure to doing the hard thing. It lessens the intensity of that feeling as well.
Jen:Yep. And that's just how we get through phobias, psychologically, and it's also how we straight train. Right? So, you might appreciate that analogy, but, right, like, the more that you do the lifting and the work, the more comfortable you get with it, the stronger you get, and it's it's less exhausting, less overwhelming, less taxing. So yes.
Jen:So we'll we'll come back to that one because that's a big one for what to do. So here are some questions to ask yourself. If you are listening to this and you maybe aren't sure, I'm like, well, maybe I avoid. I'm not quite sure. Or maybe you're like, oh, yeah.
Jen:I'm for sure an avoider, And I don't know why. I don't know why I'm doing that because I hear that a lot. I'm like, yeah. I don't like that or don't do that. I think I know that I wanna do that, but I don't know why I can't get there.
Jen:So here are some reflective questions to ask yourself to hopefully get you unstuck. Number one, does this, and this could be the action you wanna take, does this align with what I value and the life I want to create? K. Number two, what am I willing to do or give up or feel to get the results that I want? So that's asking, what am I willing to sacrifice to get there?
Jen:Number three, what am I afraid of? You can't really apply a solution until you know the root cause behind why you're doing what you're doing. Number four, do I believe that I have the capacity to change? So this question will help you identify, are there some beliefs getting in your way of changing? And then number five, what's my why?
Jen:What is my compelling reason for why I want to do this or make this change? We want to get to a deep compelling reason, not just a surface reason, but a deep rooted reason for why this thing that I want to do is non negotiable. So those questions, and there's many more, but those are some starter questions to help you journal. I'd encourage you guys to journal through those questions. We talk with a friend, mentor, coach through those questions too, but those will give you lots of insight into what's happening for you under the surface that is leading you to avoid and not do the thing that you really do wanna do and know is helpful and important to do, but you just feel stuck?
Kaitlin:Yeah. Those are such great questions. And, you know, I often see for a lot of people, there's like this disconnect between what they're doing, like their behaviors and what they value, or their standards for themselves too. So getting those things in alignment. So now what our day to day actions and behaviors are now in alignment with what our values are instead of this disconnect happening.
Kaitlin:Choosing something different than what you've always done to be able to make that change. Because if we continue to choose the thing that we've always done in those moments, we're just continuing to reinforce that behavior or that thought. Right? And so it's having that awareness of, okay, I'm having this urge or desire or this thought or this feeling, and choosing something different than what we always have in order to create that new habit or behavior. And like I mentioned before, it's going to feel like so uncomfortable and make you feel like you want to crawl out of your skin.
Kaitlin:The more you practice it, the better it gets. And it just becomes like second nature to you now. But that never happens if we're if we always revert to what we've always done and don't practice something new.
Jen:Yes. And I think key to that is really, really identifying what are the thoughts or beliefs that are getting in your way. I'll say that from personal experience. Again, if you had told me three years ago, four years ago that I would be even co hosting a podcast, I would have laughed in your face. A disappointment.
Jen:Ever do that. So I'm such a private person. I don't enjoy being on camera, Even audio wise being recorded. It was really uncomfortable for me, and I would probably argue for you to Caitlin to start. It was uncomfortable.
Jen:And then as we're gonna talk about just doing it over and over again, the fear goes away to the point where actually I enjoy it now. Yeah, I never would have thought that that I would have enjoyed this format of sharing information with the world. So you can overcome it even if your brain's telling you you can't. It is all possible, and humans have been doing this for since we existed. We have been doing hard things and dealing with change and being uncomfortable.
Jen:So you can do it. You are a % capable of doing it. You just have to align with that and believe that and see that for yourself, and it will come through action. So let's talk about that. Like, if you're ready to make a change, you're like, okay, I'm pumped up.
Jen:I'm ready. I wanna get unstuck. Number one is what Caitlin was talking about is we need to practice it. We need to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. And the more we practice that, the more comfortable we are, the more discomfort we can tolerate, and therefore the more action we can take.
Jen:So, what would you add to that, Kaelin? Because know this is a big point for you in this topic.
Kaitlin:Yeah. I mean, it all starts with awareness too, like being able to practice that pause between the thought, the urge, or the desire, and the action that we take. And so when you have this, like, I really want to do this thing, because that's what I've always done and that's what's comfortable and feels safe, being able to choose the other option in that moment. So I really love practice the pause or opposite action. It's usually like we need to do the opposite of what we want to be doing in order to overcome and and change things.
Kaitlin:So those are always, like, big things that I practice with people on that too.
Jen:Yes. I totally agree. So number two, break it down. And so this just means break it down into more manageable steps. Just like when you write a paper or study for an exam, you break it down.
Jen:You do things to slowly build up your knowledge set. Same with physical training, exercise, even nutrition. Like we say, start small, start easy, build up your tolerance, build up your capacity, build up your confidence in that thing. Same goes for things like public speaking or networking. You know, if you're in business, you have to just break it down.
Jen:And that is key because if you try to go all in, you can do that. Some people can do that, so it's possible. But you're at higher risk for failure there and of getting discouraged and having setbacks and more relapses, which might then take you off course. So we always recommend as coaches that you start small and break it down. And if you need help doing that, talk with someone.
Jen:They can help you take your idea and maybe reverse engineer that to figure out what are the steps I need to take to get to that thing. Like, if you wanna start a business, we should have clients who wanna start a business. Well, it's just break down, like, real basics about what they need to do to research that, to do market research, to build a website, you know, like, all the little things. So it feels like, okay. I can do this.
Jen:Hundred people have before me, and then the millions of people. I can do this. I just have to break it down and know what steps I need to take.
Kaitlin:Mhmm. So that's really important. Yeah. Can I add some stuff to that too? Because sometimes when we think about, like, the big picture, like, the end goal or end result that we wanna get to, it feels overwhelming, and that puts people in, like, a free state and not take action.
Kaitlin:So breaking it into smaller steps just seems so much more attainable too. And then I would also say, like, yes, hold yourself to a standard, like have standards for yourself, but don't put so much pressure on yourself either or like expect perfection out of this. Like there's going to be times where you do revert back to what bold behaviors or what you used to do. And that's fine. It's part of the process, but being able to continue to move forward even after those things happen, rather than getting stuck in this cycle of like, well, see, told you I can't do it.
Kaitlin:I messed up or I, you know, whatever stories like, it's fine. That's part of the process is that we are going to revert back to our old ways at some point, but being able to recognize that and still move forward even after those things happen.
Jen:You're right. Like, odds are you're going to have slips and lapses. That's just the part of the journey. And I would say you can greatly reduce that by doing number four, which is, sorry, number three, which is get accountability. When you have accountability, you have someone to help cheer you on and help kinda catch you as you're falling, you are going to recover more quickly.
Jen:You're going to get back up more quickly and less likely you'll be less likely to give up. And that's so important when you're doing really, really hard things. I think especially in Caitlin's world where you're trying to change your body and change your health and change your mindset. And same for me, you know, change like, starting a business, growing a business, overcoming anxiety, having hard conversations, changing your thought patterns. Like, it's hard stuff.
Jen:And having accountability means that you're going to get there way faster than you would've on your own. So don't underestimate how important it is. We talk about that all the time here, but, like, the best athletes have coaches. The best coaches have coaches. You know?
Jen:Like, that's what it takes to succeed. And people who are really successful have people around them who are always mentoring, challenging, push pushing them. It's just what is needed to be successful. Mhmm. So don't underestimate that because we often think you can do it alone.
Jen:Yeah. And you can, but it might take you way longer than it needs to.
Kaitlin:Yeah. And with that, I would say be honest with your coach and or whoever your accountability partner is. You can't pretend like you're not struggling or not or, like, everything's going right when it's not. Like, you have to be honest to make progress too, or be willing to admit that you're struggling or having a hard time to actually get the help that you need too.
Jen:Right. Like, we cannot read your mind, so we can only work with what you give us. So whether it's in coaching or in therapy oftentimes too, it's like, you know, obviously, it's your prerogative to share what you wanna share. But the more that you share and give us information, the better we can help you and serve you. And same goes for any accountability partner in your life.
Jen:Mhmm. So I wholeheartedly agree with that. So next we have number four, which is choosing, because this is consciously choosing your values over your feelings or urges. So that means learning the tools that you need to learn to not give in to every impulse and feeling that you have. You can use your feelings as information.
Jen:You can use them to give yourself compassion and empathy. You can use them to help you connect with other people. The feelings are really important, so I don't wanna diminish that. But when we are stuck in a pattern of avoidance and discomfort, we are going to overly rely on our emotions and live in what we call in therapy our emotion mind, and we are going to not lean into our reasonable logical mind or what we could also call a balance from the two, which is our wisdom, our wise mind. We are going to lean into those emotions and we need to choose our values, what is deeply important to us instead of how we feel about it.
Jen:Because ultimately, to have a rich life and a full life and feel like you have meaning and purpose, you need to lead you need to live a values driven life, like a values consistent life. That's how we get there. It's not by chasing what feels good. That will always lead to destruction. Right?
Jen:Because substances feel really good for the moment. Food, right, like food that's not great for us, feels really good in the moment. But if you over lean into that, it will eventually lead you to some more suffering and destruction. So instead, we have to be really good about training ourselves and practicing choosing our values over those feelings.
Kaitlin:Yeah. And with that, I think it's super important for you to have other tools in your toolbox. Like so many what I've learned, and even for myself, it's like most people just have this one tool in their toolbox, and that's all they know how to use. And so, yeah, it's like alcohol, or substance, or food, or whatever, that's all that's in their toolbox, so that's all they know how to use. So being able to get other tools in the toolbox to deal with it, so we're not relying on the same thing over and over again too is so important.
Kaitlin:And, you know, another great thing about working with somebody else so they can help you add tools to your toolbox.
Jen:That is exactly the goal. Like I tell my clients, like, my job is to give you an amazing toolbox, and your job is to practice using the tools, get competent in doing that so you can then go, you know, go on your own and coach yourself. Right? My goal is not to keep clients forever. Like, most work with me just for a few months, and then they're like, I feel empowered and have the tools to do all the things I need to keep doing.
Jen:And the challenge is to keep doing them, which is where still getting some accountability comes into play, making sure you have some scaffolding around you to help you continue to be successful.
Kaitlin:Yeah. Because when you're like, you're stuck in it or you're so deep in it, it's hard to think of other options. Right? Your mind is just not there thinking of other options or possibilities. So having that outside perspective is so helpful to kind of shed light and provide those other tools.
Jen:Yes. And so last but not least, and these are not ranked in importance per se, but last one we have here is to just really know what those limiting beliefs are and to address them. And that again means maybe getting with a coach to help you identify what they are. Our thoughts are often so automatic that we just they're habitual. So, we don't even realize what we're thinking or what our thoughts are.
Jen:So, learning how to think about your thinking, learning tools to be able to change them, learning how to evaluate your thinking, those are priceless life changing tools. It has changed my life. I'm sure it's changed Caitlin's life. But if you can do that and teach your mind to be in charge of your brain, anything is really possible in that regard. Right?
Jen:Not like in a way, but, like, you hold yourself back the most. I think most people would agree to that, whether it's through self sabotage, avoidance. Right? But often we just don't show up and step into what we could step into. We don't take opportunities in front of us because we're afraid, And it's all because of the thoughts in our head.
Jen:It's the story we tell ourselves. So if you can get a handle of that, you can tackle the things you wanna tackle. You can create the life that you wanna have. You can at least deal with what's in your control. You cannot control what's outside of you, but you can control your thoughts.
Jen:You can control your reactions to things, your actions. So, that's on you. And number one is people need to learn how to identify their thoughts and how to change them. That is why people end up in coaching. That's why they go to therapy.
Jen:It's often all of the problems are actually rooted in the way that they think about things and then therefore how they respond to those things because of their beliefs. I think you'd add to that. We
Kaitlin:always have a choice, right? We it's that's what it comes down to is, you know, we can choose either way. And I always go back to, you know, it's hard being stuck in this place that you're in or this pattern of avoidance. It's hard making change, but it's like, which hard would you rather deal with? Know, and there's, there's something great on the other side if you choose the unknown, the uncomfortable, the something different than you've always chosen before.
Jen:That's right. I always tell clients that we can choose short term pain to have that long term vision and goal, or we can avoid the short term pain and then get into long term suffering. It is our choice, right? But the suffering part is completely optional for us. And, you know, painful things are going to happen.
Jen:Like we can't actually avoid them. Like you can't, again, control things outside of you, but you can control your response to them, how you cook with them and having a toolbox so that you don't get yourself into long term suffering, which is what eventually brings people into getting help anyway. Right? So, it's often they don't come to therapy because they had a trauma. They come to therapy because they had a trauma and then they're doing XYZ behavior, which is wreaking havoc in their life, or now they have panic attacks or other things.
Jen:Right? And then they're avoiding more. And then that's what brings them in. So, oftentimes we think the thing that I'm feeling is the problem. But oftentimes, again, we have to we need help to deal with that.
Jen:And then when we don't, we avoid, we get into long term suffering, which then we have a whole downstream effect of problems to deal with and more suffering. So just we wanna encourage you guys that, you know, again, like, you can you can do this. You have the capacity to feel hard things and to deal with difficult emotions and discomfort. You don't have to keep doing what you're doing even if it's familiar, but it's not working for you. You can change.
Jen:We've experienced it. We've helped hundreds of people do it. You can do it. So we encourage you guys, you know, to find someone to help you on this journey. And if that you think might be one of us, then please reach out to us.
Jen:But we hope that this helped you guys because I know that it's been a struggle in my life, and these are just tools that I've implemented myself. So I hope that it helps somebody out there.
Kaitlin:So good. Yeah, definitely something I struggled with in my life, for sure. Dealing with it, and that's why I'm so passionate about it too, because when you do face those hard things and you deal with it, there's just so much more on the other side. And I want that for everybody, of course. So thanks for tuning in and joining us again this week.
Kaitlin:Share this episode with someone that you feel like needs to hear it in this message and get this message out there. And we appreciate you guys and we'll see you next week.
Jen:Thanks for joining us on the Counter Culture Health podcast. To support this show, please rate, review, and share with your friends and family. If you wanna be reminded of new episodes, click the subscribe button on your preferred podcast player. You can find me, Jen, at awaken.holistic.health and at awakeningholistichealth.com.
Kaitlin:And me, Kaitlin, at Kaitlin Reed Wellness and KaitlinReedWellness.com. The content of the show is for educational and informational purposes only. Always, talk to your doctor and health team. See you next time.
