Burnout Busters: Reclaim Your Well-Being
Welcome to the Counter Culture Health podcast. I'm doctor Jen McWaters. And I'm coach Kaitlin Reed. We're here to help high achieving women overcome mental blocks, find freedom from anxiety, create an abundant life, and build the body and life that they deserve and desire. In this weekly podcast, we'll uncover the raw truth about mental health, nutrition, fitness, and beyond. Let's get to it.
Kaitlin:Hey, friends. Today, we are going to talk about burnout, and I feel like you are talking straight to me today. So we're gonna cover some like, what burnout is, definition of burnout, what causes burnout, the difference between stress and burnout, and then how we can work through that or help relieve symptoms and keep ourselves healthy and and take care of ourselves during those times. This is a good one for me today. Currently going through it, and I'm sure there are more of you out there as well. So let's dive right in.
Jen:Let's do it. So let's start with a working definition of what burnout is because I know people can throw that word around quite a bit, but let's, ground ourselves in how we're thinking about that. So here it is. Burnout is a state of deep physical, mental, and emotional exhaustion caused by long term stress or overwhelming responsibilities. It often shows up as feeling drained, unmotivated, and disconnected from work, relationships, or even things you once enjoyed.
Jen:So like Kayla mentioned, she's going through that right now, and I have definitely had my seasons of burnout in the past having worked well, first, graduate school in general is for most people, puts them in a state of a pretty chronic burnout just with the work demands, the lack of work life balance, the little or no pay on top of the work demands, your financial stressed out, all those things are a recipe. So oftentimes college students, graduate students feel burnout. And then when I worked in the hospital, just again because of the acuity of the patient care and again just the work demands, the hospitals like to run lean. So usually we always felt understaffed and overworked, and that is also a very classic recipe for burnout. And feeling often, especially as a health care worker, health care workers are and providers are at a higher risk of burnout, they can often get to the point of feeling lack of empathy for their patient population even though that doesn't align with who they are or what their values are.
Jen:Once they start to feel lack of empathy, apathy, don't feel like they care so much, that is a big red flag for burnout as well. So this is important because it is becoming pretty prevalent. I think I can't statistically tell you that it is more prevalent than before, but anecdotally, it seems to be. And I think, you know, during the COVID pandemic, that happened a lot for people. They were having like, especially parents were having to work, have their kids at home with them, trying to teach their kids, be a teacher for the kids, be an employee for their employer, trying to hold together their relationships.
Jen:So being overworked, not having life work balance, that was definitely a recipe for more burnout in society. And I think also just like social media usage can cause burnout because you have the risk of comparison. People aren't limiting their screen uses screen usage as much. Financial pressure today definitely can cause burnout. Keeps people in jobs that maybe isn't aren't the best for them.
Jen:They stay anyway because of financial pressure, lack of community and support, think is another big risk factor for burnout, especially for like moms and parents not having people to rely on, not having childcare, not having just other people there to support them increases their risk of burnout. And then you and I were talking before just, you know, probably generally just lower resiliency and capacity that people might be feeling because of maybe, you know, tons of these different factors rolled in together and, people really struggling with their mental health. I mean, we know we have a mental health crisis in our country. And so obviously if you really suffer from depression, anxiety, other things, and then that's gonna also also make you less resilient to things like workplace stress, which then of course can then lead to more chronic burnout.
Kaitlin:Yeah. Have you noticed in your practice an increase in people feeling burnt out or them bringing it up more?
Jen:I mean, it's it's hard for me to say because just the population I work with, like my specialty area is that. So I don't know if if I really have seen an uptick, and that's just always what I've seen and worked with. But I think what I have noticed is, I primarily work with women, and a lot of folks that work with me are remote workers or business owners. And even that, it's just very isolating. It's, there's a lot of work.
Jen:So I have noticed a lot of complaints around, like, feeling stressed, but also very lonely. And then when that continues over a long period of time, you know, burnout, can definitely ensue. So yeah. So I so maybe, but I'm not probably the best person to ask because I just naturally those are the people who work with me.
Kaitlin:Sure. Yeah. Yeah. What are your experiences with it? Like, were you going through during that time?
Kaitlin:How did you feel? Any symptoms or, like, health issues? Or and and how did you navigate that?
Jen:Yeah. So what I'll do is I'll go over what are some of the general signs and symptoms, and I'll talk about my experience there. So on we'll talk about physical signs, emotional signs, and behavioral signs. So on the physical side, there's a wide range. So this is not all encompassing, but primarily people typically have things like exhaustion and fatigue.
Jen:You can have headaches. Sleep issues are pretty prominent and typical. You can have headaches, GI distress, high blood pressure issues, and even more more unique would be issues with, like, histamine intolerance or autoimmune flares if you already have underlying issues. Emotional signs, you'd have lack of motivation, being more cynical, maybe being constantly irritable, feeling detached or drained, having higher maybe levels of anxiety, depression, and like I mentioned, having that sense of of apathy or lack of empathy for, like, the people you're working with or the work that you're doing. And then behaviorally, you might see more procrastination, classic and students, decline in work performance, absenteeism, so just kinda calling out work more, withdrawing from responsibilities and social activities, using substances or food to cope, and, connected to physical too would be, like, frequent illness.
Jen:Right? Just your immune system gets depleted, so you might just be getting sick more often. So for me, with, like, grad school, I didn't so much have the lack of empathy apathy piece or cynicism. I mean, I was a new psychologist, so I was really engaged in the work that I did and really loved the work that I did and wanted to do a good job. So I wasn't there, but where I was looking back was the physical signs.
Jen:So, you know, the issues with sleep primarily for me, GI distress, and, behavioral procrastination when it came to things like my dissertation. I know it's almost like people just joke about procrastination, but when you feel really burnt out and you feel so overwhelmed like you could never catch up or that there's always work to be done, you just avoid it. Right? So I would avoid through things like TV or sleeping or whatever it was. I still performed really, really well because I was a perfectionist.
Jen:But behind the scenes, I was definitely dragging my feet and procrastinating and feeling a lot of anxiety and having sleep issues and GI distress and just feeling really generally overwhelmed most of the time, but just having that really high performing perfectionistic flare to this. So I hit it really well.
Kaitlin:Yeah. It's interesting. You never know what what's going on behind closed doors or internally, just from what you see on the outside.
Jen:Yep. Yeah. And everyone, you know, looks a little different for people too. So just keep that in mind. It's more, you know, it's more of an internal gauge.
Jen:And then, of course, the things are manifesting like you're getting physically ill, you're showing up to the doctor more, you're getting sick, you aren't sleeping well despite working in your sleep hygiene. Like, are all definitely flags that maybe burnout is part of what's going on for you. And often people can use that word interchangeably with stress, but they're not the same thing. So it can be hard. There's kind of a gray zone.
Jen:There is overlap. But how we distinguish them is that stress is more of a temporary state that we are in. Burnout is more long term. So stress can come and go, but burnout is more of a deeper state of exhaustion and depletion. And, typically, against stress, folks feel overwhelmed, but they don't have a lack of empathy or caring versus with burnout, you are more likely to have apathy.
Jen:And then things like stress can be typically more managed with short breaks or like a vacation, but burnout might require longer recovery time, deeper recovery time, longer breaks from whatever is the stress or more extreme changes in order to heal from that. And then also when people are stressed, they actually might feel energized and motivated and like move and be almost hyperactive and then burnout might lead to opposite, feeling numb, slowing down, and feeling empty, those kinds of things. So it's not a perfect black and white, but that's how we see, you know, stress, which is a normal part of life and living and more temporary and short lived and a little bit more manageable or, you know, goes up and down. Burnout is more of a long term state, more of a syndrome of these things, more chronic, harder to recover from, usually has developed over the course of a long period of time as well, and isn't as amenable to recovering just from, like, a vacation or a few days off from work.
Kaitlin:Yeah. I think that's great to point out too is because we often hear or think about stress as a bad thing or a negative thing. It's not always. Like, we need we need some stress. Right?
Kaitlin:Like, it moves us forward. It keeps us going. We need some. It's just that chronic long term where it starts to impact us.
Jen:Right. Right. Like, I need to be stressed enough to wake up on time to get my kid to school and start working on time and, you know, study for a test, those kinds of things. But when we get into, like, a de stress mode chronically and we get into burnout, then we're gonna be procrastinating. You might be snoozing a lot.
Jen:You might be running late all the time. Right? And and, again, it's it's gray, but we do need some stress. Like, it actually motivates us to get things done. It's not a bad thing inherently unless it happens chronically.
Jen:Yep. Mhmm. So common causes of burnout. Let's talk about that. So most often people think about work related burnout, which is pretty commonly known.
Jen:And things that lead to work related burnout are things like a high workload, like I talked about with my hospital experience, lack of, you know, to not enough employees for the amount of work that needs to be done. So high workload, perceived lack of control of your environment maybe or lack of control over the work that you do. So think about clients who, you know, don't know when the next project's coming or already overwhelmed and then, you know, they have a boss who might just throw a new project on them in a meeting. That sense of lack of control, definitely can lead to burnout. Having a toxic toxic work environment, so that could be because of the culture, could be because you have conflict with coworkers or other people there, your boss, and generally just lack of support.
Jen:Maybe feeling like you aren't heard, that you aren't being valued, that you aren't being seen. Those are things that can lead to work related burnout among other things. And then there's also lifestyle related burnout, and this could be, again, not because of work, but because of lack of work life balance, could be lack of social or community support. So thinking about, like, parents, for example, ex you know, experience burnout, not just because, I mean, work is work, but because aside from work, they don't have support. They feel overwhelmed by responsibilities.
Jen:They may have to start to have some of those burnout symptoms. And, things like boundary issues and being overcommitted to things and not setting healthy limits that can lead to lifestyle related burnout. And then on the temperament end of things, you can have more of an emotional mental burnout caused by being perfectionistic and people pleasing, maybe lacking purpose or meaning making. Those things would make you more prone to burnout as well even if you aren't having necessarily issues with work or issues in your personal life. That temperament style might in generally make you more prone to experiencing burnout.
Kaitlin:I can relate with that, the perfectionism and achieving aspect of things.
Jen:Yeah. For sure. And you're like that, like, almost anything can get you to a place of burnout if you overdo it. Right? Doesn't have to be that way, but somehow we make it that way.
Jen:So I definitely relate to that. So in general, factors for having burnout could be having a heavy workload and working long hours. That always is gonna be a risk factor for you. Struggling with work life balance or harmony. Working in a helping profession, not stinging us, such as healthcare that involves a lot of giving to others and often again with people who might be really sick or be really acute.
Jen:And so, again, that means lots of empathy going out and not a lot of things being received and reciprocated. And then feeling of having little or no control over work or I'd say even life. So, again, this could be even a stay at home mom having that experience. You you could be working, those kinds of things. So those are some of the risk factors, etcetera, and like we talked about the temperament style as well can put you at risk.
Jen:Anything you would add to that that you think is a risk factor?
Kaitlin:Oh. Not that I can think of. But once again, I relate to, like, the giving, you know, always pouring into others and and giving a lot. And it's rewarding, but draining at the same time. Right?
Kaitlin:Like, so making sure you're having enough coming in too, I think that can be challenging in this field of work as well.
Jen:Yeah. And that's the hard part. It's that's that's why people do it is even though it is so taxing at times or can lead to burnout, it is also very fulfilling and adds meaning to people's lives, and it gives you a sense of purpose, especially if it's part of what you consider to be your calling. So it's it's, you know, it's more about not that the job is wrong, but maybe the setting for the job might need to change or the way that you do your job needs to change with some things we'll talk about, but including things like your mindset around it, your boundaries around work, how you take care of yourself. Like, you'll have to really work on your resilience and your capacity to be able to do that job.
Jen:You wanna continue doing it without being burnt out. Yeah. So let's talk about some of those solutions. So kind step one is acknowledging and identifying that you have burnout. Right?
Jen:So assuming that's the case, a couple of things that you can do. Just a few things. One is prioritizing rest and recovery. So especially sleep. We've talked about that a lot on the podcast, but sleep is foundational to everything.
Jen:Personally, I put that above exercise and food. I think number one is sleep, and then close second food and then close third movement. But sleep optimization, make sure you're managing your stress well. I know that people say that all the time. But if you're not, then doing something about that, whether that means talking with a therapist or a coach or talking with your mentors at work or your boss, setting some maybe goals in mind there, some limits around work, making sure you're leaving work on time, making sure you're not, overdoing it in your personal life with over commitments and social media usage, those kinds of things.
Jen:Setting boundaries. So learning how to say no, really important, so freeing, and you can learn how to say no. One of my favorite words, actually. I know. It is it is hard, but it's so freeing when you can do that and do it from a place of intention and what you value and not because you're burnt out or because you lack empathy or you feel guilty.
Jen:It's it's great when you can say no and you're like, I know this is the best thing for me and for the other person is to say no to this thing. Aside from that, I'm able to delegate. It's really key being able to receive help from other people. So I often work with clients again who are very high achieving. So they really struggle.
Jen:Even if they're super overwhelmed, they don't wanna be a burden to other people. So even if someone's like, please let me know how I can help you. I wanna help you. They're like, no. That's the wrong
Intro:kind of no. Right?
Jen:Like, no. I don't wanna be a burden. I don't need your help. I can do this on my own. So if we wanna get to a place of, health and well-being and balance, we need to learn how to say no to the wrong things, but say yes to the right things, and be able to delegate and be able to receive.
Jen:I mean, that is especially if you're a business owner, you know this, like, that is key to success. You cannot do it all on your own. You can do a lot of it on your own, but ultimately, as you're growing and scaling, you're gonna have to delegate. You're gonna have to do those things. You have to rely on other people if you wanna keep becoming successful and growing.
Jen:It's just part of it. So I have to tell
Kaitlin:them that too with, people that struggle with control as well. Like, they wanna even though they're stressed and overwhelmed, but they still wanna control everything. It's very challenging for them to delegate. So kind of, like, working on working on the control aspect of things as well.
Jen:Right. And that would go well down to, like, what are the beliefs around there that keep you in the state of wanting to stay in control? Perfectionism, fear of failure, no fear you know, whatever it is, having to work on what's underneath that that's keeping you so tightly gripped to that thing. Mhmm. And then yeah.
Jen:So with the boundaries, that last piece of that is just establishing good work life limits, having people like to say balance and say harmony. So I think it looks different for everyone. So again, that's things like ending work when you need to end work, creating space for your self care, creating space for your family and your loved ones, making sure that you're receiving support even if that means you have to pay for it. Right? So as as a parent, that means scheduling in like date nights and scheduling sitter time and paying for that so that you can have that respite for yourself.
Jen:And then the next category would be lifestyle changes and nutritional changes. I'm sure you can you can speak to that, Caitlin, but things like getting enough protein, getting hydrated. From a functional standpoint, you might need to go get your cortisol levels checked to see if your adrenals are depleted. You might need to probably need to do more movement, weight training in your life. So there are certain herbs and adaptogens like ashwagandha that can help.
Jen:Again, you wanna kinda know your cortisol levels because ashwagandha can actually lower cortisol, which is great if your cortisol is high, but not so great if you have low cortisol. So when you're burned out, you could have high or low cortisol, which is interesting. So that could be something to get checked out with a functional medicine provider. And then, of course, sleep. We mentioned it before, but in this category would be sleep.
Jen:Really optimizing your sleep, addressing sleep issues, good sleep hygiene, limiting social media usage, working with someone to help you get your sleep on track if you're struggling to do that on your own. Anything you would add to this section of lifestyle nutritional changes?
Kaitlin:That good. Think I covered it all. Yeah. I don't have anything to add to that list. That was pretty good.
Kaitlin:Okay.
Jen:I'm sure there's more things. Right? So I'm sure afterwards, I'll think like, oh, that thing, but that's a
Kaitlin:Don't like sticking to the basics too. You know? Not trying to like, the the big rocks is, like, what I like to call them. The the the important things that are gonna make the biggest difference. Not trying to do everything, you know, and include all these different things that you need to start changing and doing and incorporating.
Kaitlin:Think about the big rocks and the things that are gonna have the most impact, which is always sleep nutrition and exercise.
Jen:Yes. And actually, so with that, we'll just mean, I think this goes without being said, eating well, eating whole foods is going to increase your capacity and resilience to stress and then also burnout. So often when we feel stressed and burnt out, we also typically get a little bit lazy with our food choices or we go into emotional eating. So if that's something you're struggling with, getting back on track with your food is going to be very nourishing for your body. It's gonna help your mental health and your physical health and will help you recover and heal from burnout.
Jen:So, again, instead of the processed foods leaning towards whole foods, noticing, obviously, if you have food sensitivities, working with that, But moving towards a whole foods diet with, you know, high levels or sufficient levels of protein, hydration, fats, all those kinds of things would be really key.
Kaitlin:Yeah. Yeah. And and exercise wise, I mean, this could vary from person to person, but where, you know, some people need to get moving more, some people need to do less. Like, if you're if you're burnt out and overly stressed is not a good time to be, like, overtraining and doing a bunch of high intensity stuff, you may think about more, like, recuperative, slowing down a little bit to help out with that.
Jen:That's a good point. You say, I've read that a bit too that when people have burnout and adrenal fatigue and cortisol issues, intense exercise is not recommended. It can actually make things worse. Yep. So sometimes people just lean towards, I just need to work out more.
Jen:I'm like, well, it depends. Right? It depends. So you have to listen to your body or work with someone to to help you figure that out. But you're right.
Jen:It might be a season for slowing down, gentle restorative movements, walking, you know, stretching, pilates, or something. Some, you know, something more low key and might be a little bit of time before you can get back to more intense exercise because that is a stressor on the body.
Kaitlin:Yep. Yep. Exactly. And thinking about, like, am I for the for the over exercisers and these times, am I like, is this a way that I'm procrastinating? I'm avoiding.
Kaitlin:I'm escaping. I'm kind of thinking about the purposes behind that as well.
Jen:Right. Right. Because some people, they lean towards substances to cope. Other people lean towards exercise or food. We all have our thing.
Jen:So, like, I like that you're thinking about the intention behind it and being honest with yourself. Like, is this helping me? Is there way that I'm avoiding? Is this thing actually hurting me to do this this behavior? And then, of course, is it a way to distract from what the real problem is, and am I addressing the real problem?
Jen:It's always a good question to ask yourself. So and then last piece here would be a way to recover is gonna be to reconnect with your values, reconnect with what you are passionate about, what your purpose is, and that might mean finding some fulfilling things and hobbies and activities you can do outside of work, could be shifting your perspective, and or could mean that you need to find the value and meaning in the work that you're doing again. So, again, it could be out of the work, could be in the work, could be separate from the work. There's lots of different ways to go about that, but that can help especially resolve the issues with apathy and lack of empathy is reconnect. And I know I kind of openly said, like, you know, vacation may not solve it, but taking vacations, taking time away does really help.
Jen:It's part of the solution. I know too often that, especially clients I work with, they don't take enough of their time off or, like, literally, they lose their PTO because they're not taking the time off. And like, take the vacation days, save up for the vacations, take them. You do need them. And they will also help with that issue with empathy and apathy if you take some time away and truly disconnect when you take time off of work.
Jen:That is important.
Kaitlin:And then Yeah. That one's a struggle for me for sure. Yeah. Think taking time away. Yeah.
Kaitlin:Because for me, what what I struggle with is the the work building up while you're away. So then you're you you already feel behind. Right? Like, you're already feeling like you're behind. There's always something to do.
Kaitlin:And so if you take time off, that builds up even more. And so I'm like, well, I don't even wanna deal with that. So I'll just not take the time off. So that's that's where I really struggle with with that.
Jen:What do you think is the solution to that? I've heard that before from other people. So how what would be the solution so that you can take the time off and not feel more overwhelmed? Have you figured it out?
Kaitlin:No. Because then I was like, well, I'll I'll go, and then I'll just work while I'm there.
Jen:Oh, no.
Kaitlin:That's been my solution so far, which is not a solution. So
Jen:Yeah. I mean, we could say that sometimes that might be unavoidable, especially when you're a business owner and, you know, working by yourself. So it might mean having systems in place to minimize the work, make sure you have really solid systems in place. Maybe it means that you have and you hire a VA, virtual assistant to take on some basic tasks while you're away. Could also mean that you have to radically accept that that is what it is and be really mindful and present and boundaried on your vacation so you can still get the benefits of that.
Jen:So but, yes, I hear you that that is especially as a business owner, you know, when you're not getting paid to take time off and the work will have to get done when you get back. I hear that there's more blocks and obstacles in the way for sure.
Kaitlin:Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And, for me too of, like, communicating with clients, you know, letting them know I'm going to be gone for a period of time. You're not going to have access to me and being okay with that and not feeling bad or guilty or, like, you're letting anyone down.
Jen:Yeah. That's why I like to I build that in onto my schedule. And so clients who are with me longer term, I almost expect that. Like, I'm gonna be gone for two weeks to Christmas, like that. And then once you kinda treat it like it is what it is and and they're gonna be totally fine and you believe in them, they're fine with that too.
Jen:They get to that place. But if we come after like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry to take this time off. Right? Like, we are kinda teaching them how to think about it, that they should be bad and feel feel bad about it or feel concerned or feel anxious if we're gonna be away.
Jen:So I think there's that piece of it too is how you set it up and communicate about it to your clients and people around you.
Kaitlin:For sure. Yeah.
Jen:Yeah. So with that, if you guys are struggling, encourage you to work with someone. Again, burnout is is, you know, it's a little different than stress. It's a little trickier to recover from. You have to do multiple lifestyle changes, probably work on your mindset, work on setting boundaries, and a lot of people that I see struggle with those things.
Jen:So if that is you, I would love to work with you. I'd love to give you, you know, a free consult call, connect with you, see if I can help you. But working with a coach could be a great place to go. Maybe therapy is more appropriate for you, so that could be your next step. Could also mean just setting better boundaries if you can do that on your own.
Jen:Set healthier limits with work in your personal life. Maybe make some adjustments to your work schedule for a short amount of time. And, again, like, on the extreme end, I know people who have to take, like, medical leave, doctor prescribed for a short amount of time because they're physically so ill, taxed, etcetera, that they need that level of time away. And that might be appropriate for some people too. But regardless, make sure you reach out and get help and don't suffer alone.
Kaitlin:If you need help, Jen is your girl.
Jen:I love working with it because I've been there. So, yeah, I'd love to to help other women on that journey.
Kaitlin:Awesome. Well, thanks guys for joining us for another episode on Counter Culture Health. If you are struggling with this, hopefully or maybe you've been struggling, but you don't know with what. So you just had some realizations of what this could be, you know, with knowing the signs, symptoms, contributing factors, and, you know, some action steps you can take to, help you get through it. And once again, reaching out to Jen for some coaching to, you know, connect with somebody else that can help you through this season of life as well.
Intro:So see you next week. Thanks for joining us on the Counter Culture Health podcast. To support this show, please rate, review, and share with your friends and family. If you wanna be reminded of new episodes, click the subscribe button on your preferred podcast player. You can find me, Jen, at awaken.holistic.health and at awakeningholistichealth.com.
Kaitlin:And me, Kaitlin, at Kaitlin Reed Wellness and KaitlinReedWellness.com. The content of the show is for educational and informational purposes only. As always, talk to your doctor and health team. See you next time.
