Unlocking Health: The Magic of Acupuncture
Welcome to the Counter Culture Health podcast. I'm doctor Jen McWaters. And I'm coach Kaitlin Reed. We're here to help high achieving women overcome mental blocks, find freedom from anxiety, create an abundant life, and build the body and life that they deserve and desire. In this weekly podcast, we'll uncover the raw truth about mental health, nutrition, fitness, and beyond. Let's get to it.
Kaitlin:Hey, friends. Welcome back to another week of counter culture health. Today, we have a special guest on our podcast, doctor Sam. So welcome to the show, doctor Sam. He is a, doctor of acupuncture in Chinese medicine with over 10 years of experience with bodywork and multiple modalities, including neural and visceral manipulation. He specializes in north orthopedic and neurogenic conditions. And we decided to bring doctor Sam on today to talk about acupuncture, the benefits of acupuncture because both doctor Jen and I have very personal experiences with acupuncture and being treated and having it be very effective, for both of us. So we are very, strong and firm believers in the benefits of acupuncture, and I know it's kind of there's some myths around it, maybe thought of as, like, woo woo sort of treatment and approaches. So we're gonna get the lowdown from doctor Sam today. Welcome.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Thanks for having me. It means a lot.
Kaitlin:Alright. So to start, first, what exactly is acupuncture?
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:So acupuncture is a process where you insert small sterile steel needles into different portions of the body to elicit a positive response. And it's really interesting. Acupuncture is so much older than people think. It's you know, they find it to be utilized around 3000 years ago, but they're still discovering evidence that it was used even as far back as, like, 25 100 BCE. They're finding marks on people and things like that that relate to the use of acupuncture.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And it is just a fascinating medicine that is still being researched. Can you
Kaitlin:tell us more about how you
Jen:got into this space as a wellness addict?
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Yeah. Of course. I started out as a patient. I was a premature baby and had some, like, developmental issues and lots of chronic illness. And this acupunctureist I had met through going to 2nd grade with his daughter, actually, started treating me.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And, it started with my parents. Like, my mother had taken her mother for, chemotherapy regulation, like, with nausea, which has been shown, with studies to actually reduce nausea and vomiting issues specifically related to chemotherapy. And, she found it to be really effective. And so when I was really ill as a kid and we connected with this guy, he started treating me. And I grew up thinking that was completely normal.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:You know, going to an acupuncturist once a month and then going to your primary once a year just for blood work and checking up on things. And as I got older, I kinda realized people don't know anything about this or have misconceptions about it. So I wanted to be kind of the similar pillar, of health that this guy was for me. And I actually now get to work with him at his clinic, and it's just the greatest gift. I love what I do.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:I get to come in, smile with people all day. Sometimes it'd be the best part of somebody's week, every time I go to work. So very grateful for it.
Jen:That's awesome. That's so cool.
Kaitlin:I think it's so amazing. Alright. The best the best practitioners, you know, to connect with is someone who has been through the experience and, you know, has reaped the benefits of what they are now practicing as well. So that's really cool. I think it says a lot about your parents too.
Kaitlin:I mean, especially then where maybe it was even less mainstream than it is now. So did your parents must have, like, a very holistic approach to
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Well, definitely yeah. Definitely, my mom, my dad thought acupuncture was total BS until, like, a couple years ago when he's a general contractor. He fell off a roof. And I, I remember he was building a house, and he'd hurt his back. And I'd flown up, after he'd fallen and treated him.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And he, you know, laid down with the needles, fell asleep like many people do, woke up, and his he was, like, 80% better. And from then on now, he's like, hey. You know? This is going on. Can you come over and, you know, cook you dinner or something?
Jen:You know? So Love it.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:It it's pretty fun.
Jen:Can you say more? You were saying that, before we started recording, but mechanism wise, I know there's research going into that. I remember looking at that a while back, but what what are we why do we think it works? Like, what what is where's where is science right now with the why behind it?
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Yeah. So science right now shows tons and tons and tons of empirical evidence, you know, which is like, okay. You have this group of people that are, you know, having this illness or this, you know, disease. Right? And you treat them with this interaction, this, you know, like, kind of intervention, and they get better.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:I mean, there's so much of that that supports acupuncture. The issue is finding the exact mechanisms of how it works. There are some theories. I have my own, but, you know, one of them is, like, the pain gait theory, which is pretty well researched. It's, like, they use acupuncture needles to stimulate specific areas of these fast conducting nerve fibers in the substantia gelatinosa, which is, like, kind of the region of the spinal cord that it affects.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And these different nerve fibers kind of converge and interact there. And by activating those large fibers, the pain signals from smaller fibers are essentially, like, gated and not fully allowed to reach the brain. So, it leads to a reduction in the perception of pain. They've also found that where people place acupuncture needles, there's a pretty stark increase in, capillary expansion and blood flow. So you're kinda bringing in these, like, anti inflammatory markers to the areas of pain.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:I have my own thing with, like, piezo electricity and the fascia and how stimulating the nervous system can actually stimulating the connective tissue system can actually, you know, change that electrical output. That's why it's so good for orthopedics because you can essentially modulate the electrical current going to the muscles. Right? That's a lot where, like, you know, muscle style acupuncture, they call it orthopedic style acupuncture, is super effective for athletes, for people suffering from chronic pain. It's really, really fascinating.
Jen:Yeah. I mean, my husband was a believer before I was. He says he had, I think, plantar fasciitis and walked in and walked out without pain after acupuncture. I think one treatment was, like, all he needed, which probably might be a little bit more rare, but that's pretty cool. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And plantar fasciitis is one of those ones that I think is a good example because it's like, oh my gosh. The bottom of my foot feels super painful, and I can barely walk. But treating the calf like a higher up area is super important because that's what pulls on the calcaneus and creates tension in that plantar fascia. Right? So kind of fun that you can treat something indirectly, by treating, like, the root cause.
Kaitlin:Yeah. Well, that's, doctor Sam is here today because he worked on me for, a couple years because I had severe sciatica. I mean, I was debilitating, and I did all the things beforehand, you know, chiropractic, all the things. And I, finally switched over to doing acupuncture, and it was the, you know, the only thing that really helped long term alleviating that pain. And to this day, I don't have any issues anymore.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Oh, that's so good to hear.
Kaitlin:Yeah. So good. So can you talk about, like, how how can it help with sciatica? Because I know that's pretty common among a lot of peep you know, back pain, sciatica, things like this. How can, acupuncture help with that?
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Mhmm. So, yeah, I mean, there's a ton of different. Well, we'll back up. So, medical insurances cover a lot of acupuncture. And one of the main things they cover acupuncture for is back pain and sciatica because that's been one of the most researched topics with acupuncture.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And it's been one of the ones that's the most clear empirically that's like, yes, utilizing this intervention, you know, helps a ton with this. And there's different ways you can approach it as a treating physician. I mean, you can go the, like, musculoskeletal route of trying to relax the piriformis or work with kind of like the rotatoris and multifidi, like muscles that connect the spinal cord like spinal segments to each other. Then you can essentially decompress those if the root cause is, like, radiculopathy, so, like, compression of the root nerve, you know, like, coming out of the spinal cord. And, you know, if you can relax that muscle, you can essentially create, like, small amounts of traction, right, and not compress that disc as much.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:So it really depends on where like, the etiology of where the compression or nerve issue is. There's also been some really fascinating research on reflexogenic effects. So they're finding that stimulating the terminus of the nerve so the sciatic nerve, you know, is huge. It comes out of the sacral plexus. It's, like, as thick as your thumb, and it goes underneath the piriformis.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And a few people, unfortunately, goes through the piriformis. They call that, like, true piriformis syndrome, and it goes into the lower legs. It splits into a bunch of different nerves. It's like a bifurcation in the hamstrings. And all these areas where there's big neural activity and kind of, like, these big markers or little placeholders, there usually are acupuncture points.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:That's kind of fun how they're they correlate to physical anatomy too. But they found that by stimulating the plantar nerve, which is essentially a long winded terminus of the sciatic nerve, they can have a reflexogenic effect affecting the trunk portion of the sciatic nerve and relaxing the entire nerve pathway. So, it really depends on how you wanna treat it as a practitioner, but they found it it really is effective, and I found it to be super I personally love getting into the piriformis and, you know, really working, like, the hips and the low back. I think that's imperative.
Jen:What about migraines, doctor Sanath? I think there's also research on that because I think some insurances will cover it for chronic headaches or migraines. Some Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah.
Jen:Right?
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:So, yeah, there is a good amount of research for migraines. I treat a lot of migraine patients. It's been really effective. I find that, like, hormonal migraines are a little more challenging to treat because it's you have to be a little more specific on how to balance hormones, and then, you know, diet and exercise are huge components of that as well. So seeing someone, you know, once or twice a week for an hour with acupuncture, but then having, you know, habits that maybe don't induce, like, aren't conducive to the right balance for that person, it's kind of like an uphill battle.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:But I find a lot of migraines related to suboccipital tension have been really effective, because, again, we can needle directly into those muscles. There's actually points on the head that you can use. I'll find a lot of people with jaw issues tend to have migraines like the temporalis muscle, and that's when I would use something like an adjunctive therapy, like craniosacral therapy or neural manipulation where you can actually work the head directly with your hands and kinda work the facets with those bones and muscles a little more hands on. I find that to be pretty effective.
Jen:And for them, they use a lot of crinosacral therapy for kids. Have I often seen that recommended for different things for newborns? Yeah.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Oh, yeah. I mean, at the clinic, my mentor treats a ton of kiddos, and we've seen a few come in with torticollis and, you know, not need helmets after a few treatments. It's, like, pretty amazing.
Jen:That was actually my son. Yeah. We thought that might have to go that route, and we did chiropractic care early on, creoscal therapy, sought a DO, and, we're able to and with obviously doing some things at home, we're able to having to go to those extreme routes. It's pretty awesome.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Oh, DOs are like my heroes. They're amazing folks. They really are.
Jen:Can you explain it's a doctor of osteopathic medicine. Right? But can you explain how they're different from MDs for people who don't know?
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Yeah. Just their scope of practice is way more is way bigger, and they do so much more physical manipulation. It's, like, so all encompassing. And there there is a difference between, like, American trained and European trained DOs. I couldn't refer to you to the exact differences off the top of my head, but, I have a few fans who've studied a little bit of both, and they're just amazing practitioners.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Yeah. Cannot speak more highly of Dios.
Jen:Yeah. Yeah. We love a miss mine because we're not in San Diego anymore, but she's in for my son. I know.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Jen:Caitlin, I know you're gonna go into the myths. Right? Can we talk about that? Like, what are the typical myths or, you know, things that you hear people say about I don't know if you get that kind of pushback ever from
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Oh, totally.
Jen:Yeah? Yeah. So what what's the typical thing that you hear?
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:A lot of people think that it's just fake and totally made up and that it hurts or that it's like a religious aspect or, you know, that practitioners don't have proper medical licensing. There is a pretty rigorous board that you do have to take. You have to sit for a board exam, and essentially get get a doctorate to practice acupuncture. You know? And the school I went to is WASC accredited, the Western Accreditation of Schools and Colleges.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And, yeah, you have to sit for a huge exam. It's stressful. It's crazy, which is kinda funny because acupuncture is really relaxing. To know to practice it, you kinda have to, you know, put some time in. I mean, I went to school for about 7 years, to get my licensure for acupuncture.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And, I had attached massage therapy onto that as well, so it took a little longer. But, I mean, it takes a while. A myth that it, you know, is painful, I mean, you'll feel I feel like it's more sensation than it is pain, really. And it's like you're still inserting a needle, right, which is never gonna be comfortable in a way. But there's so many ways that the practitioner can use distractions and other things, and the needle is so small that most people don't even feel it.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And, sort of, they might feel what's called deqi, d e q I, which is, the translation is like the arrival of chi at the point. We kinda use chi as a general term, to describe, like, the energetic aspect of acupuncture or like a feeling from acupuncture. And bear in mind that the people who created this, you know, 1000 of years ago had no idea about, you know, neurotransmitters, nerve conduction, any other things. So they used kind of the terms that they had available. And so I feel that's something that acupuncture could be better about is bringing some of those terms to the modern aspect, so it's a little easier to understand, and that would take away from the misconception that it's very mystical and kind of not research based.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Right? So it's kind of like using a different dictionary than what you would use now medically. Right? So that's what we're trying to do as acupuncture, is just bridge that gap and communicate, you know, in the modern aspect how it can be effective. But, yeah, I mean, it it's been shown to do a ton of stuff.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:The empirical evidence is out there. It's a beautiful medicine. I think for people that are really skeptical I know it sounds crazy, but give it a try. You know? Try it a few times.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:See if you like it. You know? Figure something that you wanna work with. It could even be something like a sleep issue or something like that, and give it, like, 3 to 4 sessions. Most insurances cover it.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And see how you feel. Journal about it.
Jen:Yeah. And I'll just attest to that too. I mean, I was someone who, was really not against it, but just was very turned off just because I don't like needles. I still don't enjoy them. Mhmm.
Jen:It was, like, the last thing I kinda wanted to do, but, you know, people here have heard my story. But going through infertility for, you know, just about 6 years before I had my son via IVF, you know, when you're in that kind of desperation state, you'll do anything. And so I was like, hey. This is gonna help, and there was some really good, reputable rep reproductive, acupuncturist in my area. I was like, I'll give it a try.
Jen:And I was really shocked at how how comfortable it was, how I would be more relaxed, how I'd fall asleep just by having needles in my body. You know, it doesn't really make sense. We're like, wow, I'm covered in needles, and, yeah, I feel really relaxed in falling asleep. But, and, yeah, I mean, I I I do believe it was a part of what allowed me to eventually get pregnant via IVF. Me and my acupuncturist was there at my transfer, like, doing acupuncture as I was it was really cool.
Jen:Right?
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Awesome. That's so cool.
Jen:Yeah. Yeah. So I I really got to experience that, but it was a couple year journey with her to get from a to b. But, yeah, I just wanna encourage people, like, to give it a try, especially if you have health issues because, I definitely think it's a big part of the healing process in the picture for for many folks.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And that being said, it's like there are really few to none negative effects. You know? And, like, that's what we were taught in school. It's like, you know, acupuncture is a very safe medicine. Herbs, on the other hand, are a whole another gamble.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Like, if you can give someone the wrong herbs, you you know, it can really cause harm, like, you know, whether it be allergies or something like that. So you have to be really on it for herbal formulas. But acupuncture is so safe, and, I mean, it's amazing.
Jen:And, honestly, too, I would say relatively affordable given other holistic things. Like, I've it was one of the more affordable things I did compared to the other things. So I think it's really flexible. Whether insurance or cash pay, it's something that most people can get access to. And like you said, at least give it a try and see if it works for you.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:It's kinda like the Rolls Royce of naps. You know?
Kaitlin:I was gonna say the AccuNap is one of the best naps I've ever had, the most relaxed I've ever been. And something that I really started to like about it too was, like, it was an hour of not having to think about anything, not having to do of just, like, pure relaxation of the needles, the heat lamps, the just very peaceful space. So it is something that I look forward to every single week for those purposes as well.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:I mean, we all could benefit from adult nap time. It's just like having the time to recombobulate and recharge, really, in such a busy world. Right?
Kaitlin:Yeah.
Jen:Can you speak to more if if it's okay to to jump here, but about the hormones because you touched on that and
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Mhmm. That was
Jen:part of the picture for me is my person was helping me with that. So how do you I mean, can you explain a little bit more about how can acupuncture help with hormones? Because a lot of our listeners well, most of our listeners are women all, and also many struggling maybe with, fertility and or perimenopause, menopause. So how did acupuncture play a role in dealing with, you know, menstrual issues, etcetera?
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:So it's really fascinating because some of the earliest texts on gynecology and obstetrics actually came from China, back in, like, the Tong and Song Dynasties. And it's, you know, which is, like, 900, you know, year 900. And it's kind of amazing, because they were some of the people that started some of that big research. And, you know, I mean, granted there was a lot of things that happened in between that, but, acupuncture is really good for hormone regulation. So there's a thing called the vagus, the vagal adrenal axis, which is like the afferent fibers of the vagus nerve actually go to the adrenals and can stimulate what's called, like, the sympathetic splenic nerve, which kinda regulates norepinephrine.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And you can have a huge change in different hormones and neurotransmitters with the use of acupuncture needle. There was a study in, 2018, and it kinda showed that acupuncture had the ability to increase and regulate estrogen and progesterone, with patients with PCOS and help regulate their PCOS really effectively. So, essentially, it uses nerves to stimulate glands, to help regulate hormones.
Jen:That's so neat. Yeah. And I think there was even research on how it does increase the success rate of transfers when it's done with cancer. Right? I mean, that's why I had my girl come up and do that for me there, which is so amazing.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Right? Working with, you know, FSH and and luteizing hormone. I mean, that's so we do, and that was kind of how the gynecological studies in China were started. They wanted to have, like, viable pregnancies for heirs to the dynasty and stuff, so they they treated a lot, for people to help keep them pregnant. It is really interesting.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:I mean, we juxtapose it with the aspect aspect of yin and yang. You know? Kinda like that circle with the s in the middle, one start, one's light. And we we use that as kind of like a metaphor for different metabolic processes in the body. And so, especially with pregnancy, it's like finding a balance between those aspects that we would prescribe in the body is the key for someone to be able to get pregnant.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Like, we all know when someone has, like, IVF or something. Right? And they have a successful IVF transfer and, you know, are able to have, you know, a child, it's often a lot easier for them after that to have a child without IVF. And a lot of people believe it's due to just the relaxed aspect about it. You're like, oh my gosh.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:I know I can have a child, and they're not as stressed out about it. And then it's easier for them to to conceive, like, without the IVF intervention.
Jen:Yeah. I've heard that too, actually. Mhmm. There are many people who got IVF, surprisingly.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Totally. Right?
Jen:What's happened?
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:There's this we call them surprise babies.
Jen:Yeah. There's kind of a joke in the IVF filter. Like, this one was the free baby. You know what I mean? Exactly.
Jen:People get what I mean by that. But when you pay a lot, it's money to have the other one, you wow. It's like, wow. I just got to get pregnant without having to spend 1,000 of dollars. It's amazing.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:The the bonus, babe.
Jen:Bonus, baby. I forgot too. Yeah. Yeah. That's good.
Kaitlin:Oh, just throw something else in there, something I've talked about before, you know, with my history eating disorder under all that. I had I lost my period for many years, but got it back while doing acupuncture treatment too. So just kind of the role that it plays with that is very fascinating also. You know? I'm sure there was some other thing.
Kaitlin:It wasn't just acupuncture, other things, but I think that it played a role too in, just balancing my hormone, you know, getting hormone off back in check as well. So
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Totally. You know? And that that's the cool thing is there's, like, nonspecific effects of acupuncture too, where it's like you may be treating this one thing, but it it's a holistic medicine. So it treats the whole patient. And how we look at a patient is through pattern diagnosis.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:So we're not like, oh, it's just concentrated in this area. We're just gonna do acupuncture in this area. Right? Unless it's a specific, like, okay. If it's an injury site, then that's exactly it.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:But we'll also treat the body holistically, and that's kind of the fun part of it too because you're not just treating a diagnosis or a condition. You're treating the person. And so you kinda show up for them as a practitioner, and it's not only about fixing that elbow or fixing that sciatic or fixing the neck, right, which I would argue that the patient is the one who fixes it. Right? Like, the acupuncturist or practitioner essentially sherpas and helps to carry some of the burden with them.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Right? But you're treating that entire person. And, you know, whether it's on the emotional aspects of just, you know, something that can't be changed physically, trying to help them understand that they are strong enough to shoulder the responsibility of their condition and work with it is huge.
Jen:Can you say more about the emotional? I'm curious about that. Like, if some would have anything physical, but their main struggles were mental health related, emotionally related, would you recommend acupuncture? And if so, how would that help them?
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Totally. You know, acupuncture has been shown to actually help with PTSD as well. Some people have post traumatic stress disorder. There actually is a style of acupuncture called battlefield acupuncture where they use specialized, components in the ears, for people to stim. There is a auricular branch of the vagus nerve that can be strongly stimulated in the ears, and we'd utilize acupuncture in that to help people deal with it.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Acupuncture is amazing for that. I mean, kinda like what Caitlin was touching on, having that acunap of just that hour to yourself when things are often, you know, going crazy for people. It's like you have time to kind of sort things out with it. And it's different than just laying down for a nap because, you know, I mean, you have needles in. Right?
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And people are like, okay. I like to use the metaphor of signing the permission slip to relax. And it's like, you're gonna be here for an hour. Someone else is kind of gauging the time. If you wanna get up earlier, you can, but you have this time is, you know, walked out for you to relax.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And for that, like, some people really just need to get away from the phones, get away from, you know, the news, and take some time for themselves. I I utilize a lot. I've treated, quite a bit of anxiety, quite a bit of depression, and we've had some really good results with it. Some of it has lasted for people. Some of it hasn't, and it's kind of an ongoing thing.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:The utilization of herbs too has been really effective. There are quite a few formulas that have been, like, clinically studied to help with sleep and help with managing anxiety. And, we use those in conjunction with the acupuncture, and it's just been amazing.
Jen:That's so cool.
Kaitlin:Mhmm. Yeah. One of my favorite things now is that the VA covers, acupuncture for veterans, and, I just think that's really fantastic just because we know, you know, anxiety, depression, PTSD, everything that veterans, deal with, after everything they've gone through. And having that as a covered resource now is I think it's just so cool and really shows how far the VA has has come also.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:My gosh. Right?
Kaitlin:To cover an alternative medicine approach. So if there are any other veterans out there listening, you know, go to your doctor, ask for a referral, and you can get acupuncture covered through community care, which is fantastic. So take advantage of that resource too.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And there's quite a few places. I mean, San Diego's got a lot of veterans. We're, you know, big veteran city, and, they I actually volunteered at a veteran clinic treating vets for free, just because people need it, and it's amazing. So cool thing I forgot to mention with acupuncture and, like, mental health. The traditional style of acupuncture relates to what we call, like, the 5 elements, and it's different elements of, like, the season, essentially.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And each element has, like, a color associated with it, kind of like a, you know, a literal element. It's like fire, earth, water, metal, and wood. And each one of those actually has an emotion ascribed to it. And this is how, like, the ancient Chinese acupuncturist would describe how the emotional process works for people. And so it's like if someone has too much anger in their life, and that's a predominant emotion for them, that will actually manifest as, like, physical ailment at some point.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:So there's different points and different protocols to help process that and help people move through that. I actually was able to study in China for a little bit, and it was really mind blowing. And, so it's like for someone who had a specific, you know, emotional disorder, let's say anger, they would actually give them a prescription of a specific style of calligraphy to, like, be a therapy, essentially, to balance out, like, the exuberant, you know, growing aspect of the the anger aspect? Do they be given, like, to do the tiniest, most minute style of calligraphy to be the exact opposite of that big exuberant anger? Right?
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And I thought that was really fascinating because it's all doing these habits to help elicit balance, essentially.
Jen:That's so interesting just how so many fields like psychology too. You know, we have our own philosophy and theories around things like anger and repression, how that manifests, like, somatically. And I would just it just you know, just the language is a little bit different, but seeing concepts in so many different holistic fields that run-in parallel and, that's so cool, though. Yeah. But that does I do remember seeing some research on the PTSD, which is so amazing, but that is an option
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:different brushes on the same canvas. Right? Because we're all working with people and we all are people. And it's just, you know, different brushes. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Different styles of painting, but it's still painting.
Kaitlin:So neat. Can you talk about how long it could take to start seeing results?
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Mhmm. So it really matters, like, what you're treating. You know? I'd say, like, a good basis for any sort of pain, related, like, issue would be, you know, 5 to 6 treatments. And I'd say a good way to go about it is 1 to 2 times a week per treatment.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:That's gonna be the most effective. Because, again, these needles have no medication. They're essentially inert, you know, steel needles, right, that are sterile. So it's it's not gonna have, like, the most lasting effect necessarily. So to get those treatments in conjunction, you kinda can compound those treatments and elicit a better result with it.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Now some people, have won and done. You know? They get a treatment. It's this issue. They, you know, have the plantar fasciitis like you're seeing before, and then they walk out of there like, wow.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:I don't have to deal with this anymore. And I think that relates a lot to, like, the nervous system and how it holds on to patterns. I don't really believe in the term muscle memory, because muscles are essentially like light bulbs. It's 2 fibers. It's actin and myosin that just contract when stimulated with electricity.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:And so if you can change the electrical impulse to those muscles, that's where the memory aspect applies because it's this neurological pattern that's, you know, kind of buried in there that's telling these fibers to contract constantly even if it's causing someone pain. So if you really know what you're doing as an acupuncturist and you get the points properly and really kinda can identify the root cause of the pattern for the person, I mean, you can see pretty serious results even within 1 to 2 treatments. I'd say a good rule of thumb, give it at least 4, 4 to 5, and see how you feel.
Jen:Is there anyone that shouldn't get acupuncture? Any contraindications for it? Because I know pregnant women can if you go to is, you know, can work with pregnant women. Anyone specifically that shouldn't?
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:I mean, not that I'm aware. If you're human, it's good. I mean, if you have a humongous fear of needles, it might not be the most comfortable thing for you, but most people can benefit from it.
Kaitlin:Exposure therapy.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Exactly.
Jen:You just gotta be part of the treatment plan, but, you know.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:I guess maybe, like, drunk people shouldn't get acupuncture. You know? So it should be sober and ready to receive. But, yeah, it's, it's a really safe medicine.
Jen:All ages. Right? Like, we said baby you can do on babies. Right? Like, it's been
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Yeah. They've treated a few children, and it's been really good. It's, like, the only time you see kids sit still sometimes. And, it's pretty awesome. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:They end up really liking it. Been treating a few kiddos for a few years now. Been able to watch them grow up a little bit. It really just feels great to see them enjoy the treatment. You know?
Jen:That's amazing. Yeah. I'm a huge fan.
Kaitlin:Yeah. Like, how I mean, how, like, quickly, really, how it how effective it can be. You know? Some people go years of medical treatment or medications or whatever. You don't see any benefit or progress.
Kaitlin:And then, you know, 5 or 6 treatments, and you can feel completely different. It's pretty incredible.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Pretty amazing. And it's utilizing the body to heal itself. Right? It's, you know, not adding anything that's gonna stress out your liver. You know?
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:They've actually been doing really interesting studies on gua sha, which is, like, an additional type of therapy where they use a tool to scrape down the back in certain areas, has been lowering, like, high liver enzymes. And they're like, how is this happening? So they're figuring out that mechanism too. They think it has to do with the lymphatic drainage aspect. And it's just so cool.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:It's like this old medicine that is, like, newly researched. I mean, it wasn't legalized in the US until, like, 1973. That's I mean, in a way, it's, like, the oldest medicine out there and yet the newest to be researched, so it's really cool.
Jen:I love that people's minds are being more open to it too. Because, again, it's interesting that most we're just so conditioned to be comfortable with taking Tylenol or Advil, like, not even thinking about it, but we might be afraid or scared or Yeah. Tend to do something like acupuncture. Mhmm. And there's so minimal risk or lose effect.
Jen:Yeah. Slight discomfort. It's it's I like that the tide's turning on those things, but it's Yeah. We're naturally conditioned to be open to those kinds of things.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:I mean, the worst thing that can happen is you get a great nap. You know?
Jen:Yeah. Which as a mom, like, that's the best thing ever that could happen. It's just like
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Exactly.
Kaitlin:Do you have a final question for you, though? Mhmm. How important is it for people to do work outside of just getting acupuncture? Like
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Mhmm.
Kaitlin:You know, sometimes people just wanna show up to acupuncture once or twice a week and think that's gonna resolve everything and solve the problems, and that's all they have to do. How important also is it to pay attention to your nutrition and exercise and Mhmm. In addition to getting these treatments?
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Oh, I mean, it's imperative. You know? People definitely need to we need a revamp in the US, of course, on, you know, nutrition and and how we take care of ourselves and our work life balancing. And I think acupuncture can play a really valuable role in helping guide people towards that. Even just receiving a few treatments a week, you know, can cause a shift for someone mentally.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Right? Because maybe they're not used to taking care of themselves or taking the time to relax. And just by actually allotting that time because in a way, it's like an act of self love. Right? You're taking this time, and it's blocked specifically for you to relax, to take care of yourself.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:You're not taking care of anyone else. You know? And as an acupuncturist, you should be aware of that, like, viewing people that this is their time. Right? And, just by making that step towards investing in yourself and your own health, I think, overall changes the tide.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Right? But can and with that, maybe people will become more motivated to take care of their nutrition. Like, oh, wow. I feel really good after this. I'm not gonna go eat that, like, processed thing.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:You know? Maybe I'll eat whatever I consider healthy. Right? And, so it can really help change, like, the mindset just by that simple act of investing into ourself as as a patient. Does that answer your question?
Kaitlin:Yes. Mhmm. That's good.
Jen:Well, doctor Sam, we are so grateful that you took the time to come on today and share your knowledge and wisdom and your experience. Really appreciate this topic, and so glad you could bring that to our show. And I'm wondering for people who may wanna get ahold of you, find out more, especially if they live local to San Diego, where can they do that?
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Go visit pacificcenterofhealth.com. And, yeah, just call and leave a message. Or if you'd like to book a treatment, you know, we do take insurance, and it's a great clinic. We really enjoyed working there. We have quite a few practitioners and it's just a fun time.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:A lot of laughter in that one.
Jen:Thank you so much. And guys, thank you so much for being here again with us this week. Come check us out in a couple weeks for another episode. And if you guys want any information, wanna reach out, our information is in the show notes. But thanks so much for hanging out with us, and we will see you next time.
Dr. Sam Wisotsky:Thanks for having me.
Outro:Thanks for joining us on on the Counter Culture Health podcast. To support this show, please rate, review, and share with your friends and family. If you wanna be reminded of new episodes, click the subscribe button on your preferred podcast player. You can find me, Jen, at awakendot holistic.healthand@awakeningholistichealth.com. And me, Kaitlin, at Kaitlin Reed wellness and Kaitlin Reed wellness.com. The content of the show is for educational and informational purposes only. As always, talk to your doctor and health team. See you next time.
